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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 26, 2014 11:07:40 GMT -5
After a nice breakfast and some coffee, I went and dug my hands in. I pulled the "new" plug out and re-gapped it to .64mm (.025") the smallest gap on the gauge I have. The damn thing barely wanted to start, let alone idle. It died no matter what I did and the acceleration was not happy. It sounded like it was either suffocation from air or gas. What the ! So I said screw it. I threw the old plug in. No change in gap. VIOLA! Started RIGHT up and idled perfectly. I then removed the boot (a boot for you Canadians... ) and put the NGK boot on. Tested again, perfect. I got the cheap-0 tach meter that I forgot who here said he got. Yes, it's a little slow, but once you get the right setting, it's a hell of a lot better than no tach at all! A few wraps around the plug wire, a couple of zip ties to hold it and make it look nice (Sorry 90GTVert but your after market tach wire made my skin crawl lol, it's the OCD in me) and a few zip ties to mount it to the scoot. Picture will be at the end of this post. Here's the even better news. NO BOGGING OR FEELING OF A SOFT SEIZE!! I took a trip to 7-11 to get some cigs and then to Advanced Auto to see if they had this plug in the iridium. Sadly they don't have the NGK, I think they had the Autolite but I'd rather stick with the NGK. She ran WOT almost all the way there (about 3 miles) and most of the way back. I think I saw the RPM go to 9,200 max on the way there. It's a windy day though, but my max speed reached 41mph with the wind. That's kinda sweet considering this thing still is pretty damn stock! I haven't even taken the vari off to look for restrictions either. So it feels much more reliable and stable now. I may take it for a cruse over to see 2TDave today. First I want to take another whack at the VX50 and the exhaust. I'm going to remove the fender and see what I have to do to get a bracket to work. And here's the install. Keep in mind this isn't meant to be permanent and I have a little wire showing, along with my mickey mouse engineering of zip ties. God I love those buggers!
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Post by niz76 on Oct 27, 2014 23:37:56 GMT -5
Looks like you got a lot accomplished! 41 isn't too bad for a 4t! Maybe you can mix in those super light 4g from your Hoca vari and get lil better performance? For some reason CVT tuning is my favorite...
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 28, 2014 4:05:46 GMT -5
Looks like you got a lot accomplished! 41 isn't too bad for a 4t! Maybe you can mix in those super light 4g from your Hoca vari and get lil better performance? For some reason CVT tuning is my favorite... I still have to see if there's any restrictions in the CVT, there wasn't a restriction in the airbox and it still has the stock carb. I took the carb off of one of the other 4t's, it has an 85 main jet in it and an adjustable needle. I may slap it on this weekend and see how it work, then I will open up the CVT and take the Vari apart. I couldn't get it apart last time I opened it because the nut was not coming off with my Rigid 1/4" hex impact. Now I have a full sized impact so I'll go at it with that. I still need to get a 41mm socket for the clutch, though that's mainly for the VX50 so I can replace the spring. But yeah, this one will get the BBK I have now and I may check out JoshCloseouts on eBay and get one of his exhausts for it too, if this one isn't restricted as well. If I can get this one to do 45-50 I may commute more with this one more.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 29, 2014 19:59:12 GMT -5
I decided to try out the other 45/45w bulbs I got from Bulbtown and see if I liked them over the LED bulbs in there now. Grant it the regular bulbs focus better I think, they still weren't nearly as bright and clear. Sad really. Removing them was a chore, one started to unscrew from itself. So in the garbage they went and the LEDs are back in. I was going to take it for a ride but I couldn't find my clear safety glasses I swore I got. So I drove the cage up to Harbor Freight to buy 4 pairs of clear (3 clear 1 yellow) safety glasses that I'm going to keep in the scoots for night driving. Sorry, Corey Heart, but I can't wear my sunglasses at night so I can see.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 31, 2014 6:23:11 GMT -5
A new Hoca Variator should be arriving tomorrow. I may also get carb happy this weekend on both this and the VX50. Maybe, maybe not. But at least she will have a new Vari and I have an arsenal of weights to play with.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Oct 31, 2014 20:39:01 GMT -5
I had an itch to drive it tonight so I took it for a little spin. About 6 miles. I noticed the headlights flicker while driving in high beam. There's no real hi/low beam, it's just on and brighter. When I finally got home and parked, when I hit the brake, the flicker went away? But then it came back after a second, randomly. I tapped on the headlight and I'm not sure that affected it, like something was loose. I don't know. But it's odd how they flicker now that I put them back in when they didn't flicker before with any throttle.
The temp is a little cooler tonight too. The bugger didn't want to throttle at all when I first started it, but after a minute if idling, it responded more and more till it was fine once warm. Jet issue? I still haven't gotten the iridium plug for it yet. I'm still thinking of putting the carb back together from one of the part 4t's I have, it has an 85 main jet in it and it's not sealed. We will see I guess.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 1, 2014 15:05:27 GMT -5
Today I was determined to do the valve adjustment. Everyone kept screaming it...
So I did it. Seemed like the intake was WAY loose and the exhaust was too tight. I got them both adjusted best I could, giving a little more snug of a fit on the intake, since my feeler only went down to .04mm. It sounds fine. Don't really notice any performance, then again it's windy as HELL today. To the point where when I got home, my patio umbrella snapped in half and my patio table got dragged down with it.
I will say this though, it's cool out today and this thing started RIGHT up. As soon as I got the valve cover on and the PAIR connected, battery back in and connected, I barely tapped the start button when trying to start it and it went right up to idle. No irratic idle too like it was before. So yay. Now I know how to and NOT to do a valve job and I'm happy I didn't blow the engine up. I took it for a ride for a few miles, let it get nice and warm and see how it runs. Engine is fine. Next time I think I'm going to just take the whole body apart to make this easy. It makes me think of when I'm going to put the BBK on. Either the body comes off or the engine comes out.
Though now I have to tackle the CVT. I'm still waiting on the post office to deliver the stuff in the mail today. They are majorly slow here.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 1, 2014 21:03:44 GMT -5
I took it for a good ride tonight. 5 miles each way. The temps dropped over 20 degrees over the day so it wasn't happy on the way there. It started with no problem, but it took a while to warm up and stay on without me having to give it some throttle. I'm not sure if the idle is too high or low because it does this thing where it will idle up to about 3-4k, then it will come down to a normal put put idle of maybe 1.5-2k, but then suddenly it revs itself back up again. Like the choke is going on and off? I checked the choke and it does move.
I also am noticing that the LED headlights now are acting funny. On "low" beam, they seem to be ok while driving. A slight flicker but barely noticeable. On "high" beams, they flicker like crazy until there's another drain on the electrical system. Like if I hit the brakes or the turn signal is on, that seems to stabilize them and they run bright as before. They were fine before I did the bulb swap/test the other night. So now I have an electrical ghost to chase.
The Hoca Variator came in today, sadly I didn't have the energy to pull her apart. I want to throw the other carb in first I think and see how it runs. But I'm a little nervous the jet may be too big. It's got an 85 in it now with an adjustable needle. Diaphragm looks to be in good shape. I took it apart and soaked it in hot vinegar for a couple hours. It stripped some of the plating off some parts and made the brass look funny, but it's clean. Not sure that was a good move or not. If not, it's not like I paid for the carb. It was off one of the junk 4t's I have.
Then maybe I'll mess with the variator.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 2, 2014 12:19:37 GMT -5
Today I got to put the Hoca Variator on. Spent the last few hours tuning. Here's the results.
Hoca Variator, compared to the stock Variator there wasn't too much of a difference. The Hoca had a little more travel allowed as far as the back plate movement. It came with 9g weights (wtf? For a 4t? LOL), stock variator had 5g rollers. Drive boss was the exact same size as what was on there stock, so that's good for me. It means I can shave one down if need be, but I don't think I'll need to. You'll see why at the end.
Conditions & test road. Flat road, distance of about 3/4-1 mile used, I cut the distance short on some runs when I saw I wasn't getting anywhere. It's not very windy out today, not like yesterday. Temp was between 64-67F during the whole test. 1st run (south) with the wind, the run back (north) was against the wind.
1st run. 9g rollers. Top speed was around 34mph with the wind, against the wind maybe I hit 25. Takeoff was bad.
2nd run. 8g Sliders (Dr. Pulley, thanks Dave!) Top speed went up to 34.6, again the ride against the wind wasn't all that great. Takeoff improved slightly.
3rd run. 7g Sliders (Dr. P) Top speed was about 35.5mph, against the wind 26-27mph. Takeoff not much different than with 8g.
4th run. 6g Sliders (Dr. P) Top speed was 38.5, 32 against the wind. Takeoff was better.
5th run. 5g rollers (stock that came with bike) Top speed was 39mph, 33 against the wind. Takeoff was again better.
6th run. 4g rollers (hoca, came with other vari for 2t) Top speed (drumroll) 42.2mph, it actually didn't take that long to get it too. Against the wind I was able to ride 35mph. Takeoff was better.
RPM on 1st run wouldn't go above 7,300 and gradually increased as I changed weights. With the 4g, the max RPM are about 8600. The 4g also allows it to reach the powerband easier for takeoff and gives a better throttle response as well. So for now 4g it is. I forgot to mark the belt travel for the first few runs. On the 5th run I did and there was no marker left on the variator at all, except along the edge of the bell, not on the drive face at all. So I'm getting full belt travel from 5g. I know I have to be getting full belt travel with the 4g as my speed was better and it allowed my RPM to come up higher.
Now if I can only figure out which wire on the CDI to cut to de-restrict this puppy.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 2, 2014 13:02:23 GMT -5
Decided to remove the carb and inspect. It's clean inside. I'm going to remove the mixture screw cap too. I looked at the main jet, it has a 72. I have the 85 from the other carb that I think I'll try out. This carb isn't as much of a pain getting on and off as I thought. I also measured the venturi at the intake. The stock is 18.5mm and the other carb is 20mm. Not sure it's worth figuring out how to rebuild the other one just for the 1.5mm difference, when I can just use some of the parts. In fact, I found the other carb. It seems to be this one here. For the headache, I'd rather just buy a new one when the time comes. No sense in swapping when I'm still running stock 50cc. I will try the jet swap and also see if the needle will work too, since it's adjustable. I also like that the stock carb has a hose for the drain with a screw outlet on the end so you don't drain onto the engine. HAH! Found a jet kit that will fit the stock AND the aftermarket should I buy one. Score! Should have that mid week, it would be good to have around. Plus I will see how it acts with this #85 in it for now in the cooler weather. Good thing I ordered the jet kit. It does NOT like the #85. Too rich I believe. I went from 42.2mph max to barely hitting 35 now. Seems a bit deeper in tone and all. So yeah, not with this size head. Maybe with the BBK it may like it more. Put the stock jet #72 back in. Took it for a run, got it to 43mph now. Looks like this is the best I'm going to get out of it for today. Better than it was doing before, so I can't complain really. When the jet kit comes in, I may put in a 75 and see how it runs. I also exposed the mixture screw, nearly put a hole in the carb doing it! My next trick will be hooking up an aux 12v plug so I don't have to have the battery exposed while I have my GPS suction cupped to the gauges. Yes, all my speed reports earlier were by my Garmin GPS that I had hooked up to the thing for now.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 8, 2014 18:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 10, 2014 7:36:38 GMT -5
I'm researching some stuff on upgrading the carb, intake and even the head when I do the BBK. I keep seeing "Type-1, Type-2, Type-4" on the carb. I have a Keihin carb on my eBay list ($30 shipped!) that I was going to buy and I already have jets that should fit it. What are the differences in Types?
And without breaking the bank and taking a mortgage out on a new head, should I try to call Valley for the matching BBK head or is there one that won't cost me a limb? Longer valves worth it? Best price for a new camshaft too? I figured that one deserves a whole new top end build.
This is just research for now. The PAIR system is still intact right now, contemplated removing it but decided not to. Though it's noisier than the exhaust lol.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 13, 2014 7:51:44 GMT -5
If the "type" labels are from PFS , look at their description and specs and they'll tell you.
A stock head often works alright with a 72cc. Lots of the big bore heads are nothing more than a stock head with a larger combustion chamber to keep compression in check. Sometimes you get a good boost from the added compression and it runs great, sometimes compression is too high and you get spark knock and overheating.
Longer valves are either required or not. If your current engine uses 69mm valves, you need a head that uses 69mm valves OR you need to get rocker arms or a rocker assembly for the 64mm valve head if you use one.
Check scrappy and eBay for a cam.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 13, 2014 8:06:15 GMT -5
If the "type" labels are from Parts For Scooters , look at their description and specs and they'll tell you. A stock head often works alright with a 72cc. Lots of the big bore heads are nothing more than a stock head with a larger combustion chamber to keep compression in check. Sometimes you get a good boost from the added compression and it runs great, sometimes compression is too high and you get spark knock and overheating. Longer valves are either required or not. If your current engine uses 69mm valves, you need a head that uses 69mm valves OR you need to get rocker arms or a rocker assembly for the 64mm valve head if you use one. Check scrappy and eBay for a cam. I'm not sure, I think my valves are short, not long. I should just call John and ask for the price of the head I guess, just to be safe. I think it comes with valves and all? I saw the cam on Scrappy, about what I expected in price. As for the carb type, I don't think it's much of a concern really from what I'm seeing. The one I have on eBay looks the exact same, except it has an accelerator pump, so bonus.
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Post by jhobe6678 on Nov 13, 2014 18:02:57 GMT -5
I got a hold of John at Valley, he's willing to give me the head for a great price so I'm not passing it up. It's going to come with valves all assembled. The thing is he asked if I was 64mm or 69mm valves. What's the difference really? I know it's a dumb question, but I'd rather ask than assume.
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