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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 21, 2014 12:38:10 GMT -5
I have been looking around at parts and even the parts from many vendors are off center and mismatched. I would think someone would have the correct parts or at least know WHY they are mismatched.
I can keep the anti-reversion and still make the ports line up properly. One always wants the airflow to run from a small port into a larger one. That is anti-reversion also.
I can also keep most of the port matching in the cheap spacer to make it easy to modify or change.
The intake I bought is still a mess and will take a lot of work to fix a sharp turn and edge halfway down. The carb side is mostly my problem to match the carb. I have not found anything large enough with a small enough outlet. I will just bore out the rubber etc to fit. Just a few mm mismatch but it is important.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 25, 2014 11:24:43 GMT -5
I finished porting the carb side of the intake manifold Sunday night. It now has a 32x26mm inlet side tapered smoothly down to the existing 18mm outlet. I will see how the spacer and head look before I do anything to the outlet.
I got some parts Monday but some did not fit right so I am still searching. The intake spacer had a 23mm hole which was too large to use on a 50cc. I hope I don't have to make an intake spacer out of wood. I found one that has a 20mm ID hole but it had 48mm bolt spacing. I may have to get it and slot the bolt holes. I ordered two spacers from Absolutely Scooters with 19mm holes, doubled the cost for two day shipping and they are only supposed to be here in 2-5 days. Nobody seems to have any idea what parts fit what and still fewer have properly dimensioned drawings or pictures. It is just hit and miss to get the right parts with so many manufacturers and vendors. Parts are not as 'one size fits all' as many people seem proud of announcing. These GY6 clone engines seem to come in many flavors.
The air filter is OK but it did not have the weld nut in the end that the picture had. I will need to punch a hole and use a self-taping screw. That will be OK for a cover.
I did get a radiator hose that will make a fine air inlet for the CVT. I also bought one that will make a perfect warm air inlet for the carb. If you need crazy bent up pre-formed tubes an auto supply store is a great place to look.
I can look for a proper spring for my new SS thumbturn idle adjustment screw today. My CVT may come apart today and get some vent holes drilled. I can also get those air vent tubes installed..
I really don't understand how any air got to my 50cc engine combustion chamber. The intake system was Forked to the extreme. I can only hope it was on purpose rather then just a giant pile of messed up and mismatched parts.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 27, 2014 13:04:02 GMT -5
After the mismatches in the intake and head area the engine was breathing through a hole maybe 9/16" max in diameter. Add that to all the crap in a stock airbox and it is a wonder the engine ran at all.
I am still waiting on some isolators from Absolutely scooters but this holiday week makes delivery iffy. In the meantime I am still working on the airfilter and a heated air intake. Maybe the CVT cooling will get attention. I haven't had the CVT cover off yet. With the stock airbox gone CVT removal gets easier and it opens up space to move my side basket back. I need to work on the exhaust but that will have to wait on getting the engine running properly with the new carb setup.
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Post by Clank on Nov 28, 2014 2:34:37 GMT -5
:popcorn:
Good shit Maynard
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 28, 2014 3:34:31 GMT -5
Good shit, -no-, crap parts. The parts I buy are ~OK, they just don't match or fit together. I think I have six intake spacers on order now. I am just waiting for something to come in that fits or I can modify to fit. All the 50cc spacers I am seeing pictured seem to be offset to match the offset 50cc head ports. The spacers I see seem to be available with 18, 19, or 20mm holes. I tried to modify my 16mm OEM intake spacer but the Bakelite plastic cracked. I have filed out the intake bolt holes to move the intake higher a mm or so to help alignment. I may file them some more. I hate to spend a lot of time porting one of those rubber coated intake manifolds. The metal ones seem to be made for 150cc engines and don't line up with the 50cc ports either. If my milling machine was up and running I think I would just make an intake manifold myself. This situation may drive me to it. I am behind on my electrical work to support machines in my garage though. There is always something that has to be done before something else... I lost two days this week to being sick. I am going to have to get some pics of this thing so if it works I can post them, -somewhere. I guess if it does not work I can put the stock crap pieces back on and wait for spring to arrive. Where do the rest of you guys get parts that fit and aren't misaligned? I ASSUME that most 50cc OEM heads are offset so they align with the offset spacers everybody seems to sell. Are there aftermarket heads available that have ports aligned with the studs?
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Post by Clank on Nov 28, 2014 4:21:41 GMT -5
I've yet to see one. If you decide too make your own out of aluminum or steel on your mill, go ahead and make two. I'll put my order in now just pm me your pay pal info. :wheelie:
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 28, 2014 12:12:16 GMT -5
Will do. Maybe I should just get one of those 3D printers and make them by the dozen out of ABS plastic. So does everyone just install that misaligned crap on their 50cc scoots? Am I the only one that thinks that is wrong? One guy out of how many millions of 50cc mechanics and owners across the globe? Something ain't right here....
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Post by Clank on Nov 28, 2014 12:33:46 GMT -5
Brother I'm here with you. I asked the same question several months ago and got pretty much the same response.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 28, 2014 12:43:37 GMT -5
Yeah, but I am a certified Lunatic. I have papers to prove it.
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Post by Clank on Nov 28, 2014 15:51:17 GMT -5
So why haven't you started building a hover scoot similar to the Star Wars speeders? They say that genius & insanity rides a razor edge.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 28, 2014 16:00:51 GMT -5
Unfortunately I have lost 1/4 of the brain I had to strokes. The holes are glaring but there is nothing to be done. I am just left with the insanity. Depression has taken a toll on my genius nephew and son also. Just remember to thank my uncle for the GPS you use while measuring your scoot performance.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 29, 2014 10:13:30 GMT -5
So does everyone just install that misaligned crap on their 50cc scoots? Am I the only one that thinks that is wrong? One guy out of how many millions of 50cc mechanics and owners across the globe? Something ain't right here.... I haven't worked on a 4T intake for a while. Been lucky and my TaoTao has 3000+ miles so far without me touching the engine other than routine maintenance. When I had my last 4T I matched it all up, but that's been a while. I thought some of the performance stuff had it properly aligned, but I can't tell you for sure off the top of my head. I've got a couple of heads around for whenever I get that far on the TaoTao so I'll have a look soon and let you know if they have the same misalignment.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 29, 2014 10:56:59 GMT -5
It looks to me like the 125-150cc stuff is probably OK but this 50cc stuff is bad. I have slotted the two stud holes that secure the intake manifold to move the manifold forwards a couple mm. The 18mm manifold outlet now aligns with a 20mm intake gasket but the outlet will need some tooling mark cleanup. The 20mm intake spacer is aligned with the 18mm passage in the head. Now all I have to do is cut out the head passage to 21-22mm and taper it. I need to face off the carb outlet also to remove a chamfer and burrs. I just finished my air filter cover last evening. It has a 1" warm air intake tube and a 1/4" crankcase vent port. I lined it with black acoustic foam and painted it black to match the scoot of course. Not the best paint job in the world either. The paint was cold. With the foam lining there is a gap around the filter base that gives me about 2.4 square inches of inlet area. Plus there is the 1" diameter warm air inlet. It should breathe and I hope the acoustic foam cancels some of the noise. The cover is made out of an old baking powder tin can cut down in length and the two ends soldered back together. I need to punch a hole in the end of the filter for a screw to hold it on. I am not sure if the air filter I purchased has any oil on it. I may use a foam brush and dab on some air tool oil. The other end of the warm air intake tube should have a slight pressure on it due to the engine fan. That should help move air through the tube. It will be coming off the left side of the engine near the chain tensioner. The CVT cover may get removed today also... I have not had it off before I have to get busy...
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 29, 2014 12:25:24 GMT -5
The only aftermarket intake I have is a 150 so no help there. Those do seem quite well centered, just huge for a stock 50. I have stock gaskets and isolators from PFS and a stock head from another TaoTao and intakes from a couple of sources, both look the same. I get the same misalignment you have. Stock head, intake port. Spacer lines up pretty well with the stock intake port on the head. Gasket also matches the spacer and head well. A little oversized, but centered. Once you get to the intake, all of the nice matching ends. Would put you very near the o-ring to match the intake runner to the rest. Not sure how the aftermarket intakes are, but aftermarket heads don't really do anything to improve the situation. Without matching they would just leave more of a mismatch on the bottom of the port and if the stock intake is matched up it looks like you'd have to eliminate the o-ring in the intake. You should expect to mod if switching to aftermarket heads anyway, but it is a shame to have such a mismatch just for stock parts. I wonder if higher quality scoots like the Kymcos for example are like this? Just in case it's of any interest, pics of the intakes on different heads. Hoca for 50mm bore. Growsun (02starrider sells) for 50mm bore. Have to note while I'm here, this thing has a terrible surface at the port. The line you should see across the mating surface, it's way higher on one side like it was improperly cut or milled. ScrappyDog Big Valve Naraku for 52.4mm bore.
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Post by FrankenMech on Nov 29, 2014 16:19:37 GMT -5
Growsun (02starrider sells) for 50mm bore. Have to note while I'm here, this thing has a terrible surface at the port. The line you should see across the mating surface, it's way higher on one side like it was improperly cut or milled. That Scrappydog surface does not look much better. Hey, it was quitting time...... If I am identifying things right it seems to be just as I expected. The stock 50cc stuff has a mismatch with the 50cc intakes. The big bore/valve heads look like they have been set up for the 150cc intake with the large ~23mm intake ports centered between the studs. No wonder the BBK setups work so much better. Now if I could only find a cast iron head for a BBK... -I hate awoominiumun. Especially the crap cheesy alloy they use for this China crap. It looks like the Hoka and Naraku are the better heads.
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