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Post by fe53series3 on May 18, 2015 18:21:16 GMT -5
This post really needs to be in the library. So you watched all the videos on YouTube...... the guy with the nut in the vice, and the other guy with the adjustable spanner. (and our own GTVert with the impact driver [how nice to have one of those ]). Did you notice how the damned nut always almost fell off? It's just not like that in real life. Put the nut in a vice, and try turning the clutch assembly....... forget it. Hammer on an adjustable spanner, and whack it on the ground.......... all that happens is that the frigging spanner flies off. Let's face it...... what we need, is a bullet proof method, to remove the clutch nut. Well here it is:
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Post by oldgeek on May 18, 2015 18:32:57 GMT -5
IMO That is a very bad idea. Looks much too likely to damage the fragile needle bearing against the threaded rod. I have always been able to use a decent adjustable wrench, smaller than the one he is using, to get even the most stubborn clutch nut off. Hitting the wrench handle on a solid surface like a vice is just like using an impact wrench, just slower.
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Post by humanshield on May 18, 2015 19:40:29 GMT -5
I just did this last week. IIRC, I used a 1-1/2" socket and my impact gun. Off in seconds. No mere mortal clutch nut can resist the evil power of the impact gun....muh ha ha hahah
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Post by fe53series3 on May 18, 2015 19:43:39 GMT -5
IMO That is a very bad idea. Looks much too likely to damage the fragile needle bearing against the threaded rod. I have always been able to use a decent adjustable wrench, smaller than the one he is using, to get even the most stubborn clutch nut off. Hitting the wrench handle on a solid surface like a vice is just like using an impact wrench, just slower. In real life.... it just doesn't happen that way. The nut is so badly made, my next door neighbours cat offered to file the flats for me. Instead, I did it myself. These nuts are truly pathetic. Such locking force...... and yet so little metal to purchase. Even with the nut flats filed parallel.......... no joy. What about heating the nut, in case it had locktight applied...... no.... just simply a waste of gas. The plain fact is, that if the nut has never been off, no amount of 'thread releasing agent' helps. The adjustable spanner, even hammered on (it was at it's limit), still had too much flex, when shock was applied. The only way to eliminate this shock sideways effect (that took the easy route), was to apply a counter sideways effect. First tap, the nut moved...... once moving, that was it. There may be another way to achieve this effect..... but so far it has not been recorded. All methods that I saw, involved turning nuts that were not on that tight....... and none of them worked on a genuinely tight nut. Any other ideas...... I'm all ears.
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Post by scooterpimp on May 18, 2015 19:58:50 GMT -5
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Post by 2TDave on May 18, 2015 20:02:42 GMT -5
I can tell you in real life it does happen like that and it happens a lot in my garage and I have dents in my floor to prove it. Some have been more stubborn than others but I have always won with an adjustable wrench and a concrete floor!
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Post by 2TDave on May 18, 2015 20:15:31 GMT -5
I will add that I have done this on scooters that have never so much as had the cvt cover off much less the clutch apart. So yeah the nuts were very tight and no it wasn't tap, tap but more of repeated whack, whack, whack. Yes the wrench comes off, it doesn't fly anywhere because it's in the palm of my hand. I put it back on, tighten and whack, whack, whack. Guess you could say I whack my nut off!
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Post by fe53series3 on May 18, 2015 20:31:39 GMT -5
Well..... I can assure you..... this nut was not coming off. I whacked, and I whacked...... not once, but numerous times...... enough to make me realise I was wasting my time.
My hands were unable to hold the adjustable spanner onto the nut...... the force of the flex was too great.
Sadly, I also tried lesser force...... repeated tapping..... but I could hear the nut laughing at my pathetic attempts.
My hands could never replicate the effects of mechanical grip. Replacing my hand grip with a mechanical grip, solved the problem immediately.
Obviously, I'll never have to use this method again on this motor........ but for people who've viewed the other Youtube videos, and find that they just don't apply........ this is an immediate solution to their problem
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Post by 2TDave on May 18, 2015 20:39:12 GMT -5
I don't like the pressure on the fixed pulley or the possibility of damaging the bearing as OG said. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by oldgeek on May 18, 2015 20:54:02 GMT -5
IMO That is a very bad idea. Looks much too likely to damage the fragile needle bearing against the threaded rod. I have always been able to use a decent adjustable wrench, smaller than the one he is using, to get even the most stubborn clutch nut off. Hitting the wrench handle on a solid surface like a vice is just like using an impact wrench, just slower. In real life.... it just doesn't happen that way. The nut is so badly made, my next door neighbours cat offered to file the flats for me. Instead, I did it myself. These nuts are truly pathetic. Such locking force...... and yet so little metal to purchase. Even with the nut flats filed parallel.......... no joy. What about heating the nut, in case it had locktight applied...... no.... just simply a waste of gas. The plain fact is, that if the nut has never been off, no amount of 'thread releasing agent' helps. The adjustable spanner, even hammered on (it was at it's limit), still had too much flex, when shock was applied. The only way to eliminate this shock sideways effect (that took the easy route), was to apply a counter sideways effect. First tap, the nut moved...... once moving, that was it. There may be another way to achieve this effect..... but so far it has not been recorded. All methods that I saw, involved turning nuts that were not on that tight....... and none of them worked on a genuinely tight nut. Any other ideas...... I'm all ears. Perhaps your nut was all kankered up? I have never had to resort to using the method in the video, but I am glad I learned it in the event I get a really stubborn one. It looks very effective. I would like to add that I use a neat little forged flat jaw pipe wrench that really fits the nut well. I think a decent wrench is important to have whatever method you use to remove/install the clutch nut.
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Post by katastroff on May 18, 2015 21:06:08 GMT -5
I'm the proud owner of a 30 inches pipe wrench and i never had any problems with that nut or with any of the ones on the forums.
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Post by fe53series3 on May 18, 2015 22:07:59 GMT -5
I don't like the pressure on the fixed pulley or the possibility of damaging the bearing as OG said. Just my 2 cents. With all due respect (to all comments), can we take one step back, and look at what is really happening here? ... this threat of damaging the pulley and the bearing is primarily off the cuff, theoretical analysis, and doesn't really bear close scrutiny. First off.... there is no way that this method can damage the pulley...... just look at the forces involved. It's a turning force on the pulley flange, rotating through the major washer...... it simply 'slips around'........ if it slips at all If the flange couldn't take this, few engines would ever run. You know...... have a look again....... there is not the slightest chance of damage to the pulley. Re the needle bearing...... again, am I being fair to suggest having a second look? The needle bearing is at the opposite end to the impact flex. Any angular sideways movement, due to angular deflection, after loss to friction, will be absorbed by the roller bearing (which could take at least 20 times this force). Note: most of the force is absorbed by the movement of the nut. Deflection force after friction will be minimal. The motion is primarily angular, occurring at the top....... the lower fixing, at the needle bearing end, is the pivot point. If the needle bearing position was reversed, then there would be risk of impact, and theoretical damage..... however it wasn't and isn't, so no need to discuss that. Let's be clear about this.... no scooter parts were damaged in the making of this film On the issue of 'why this nut wouldn't come off'...... those that have followed the history of this bike, will know that it suffered the experience of a small flood, that got to axle height. This meant that the nut was 'rust welded' to the thread. Thankfully, I have yet to clean up this component, so you can all see what a 'rust welded thread' looks like after nut removal: Let me assure you...... I've been removing difficult seized nuts for decades....... and this one was an absolute twat. If it was to damage a bearing.... so be it, cos it had to come off....... thankfully the needle bearing was well out of harms way. What I can say is, that if you are faced with such a situation, and you've applied releasing agent for 24 hours, and no joy........ this method will get you moving again........ without any damaging side effects.
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Post by Elektrey on May 18, 2015 22:20:20 GMT -5
all I can say is a cordless impact really prevents alot of headaches when working on these things haha
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Post by humanshield on May 18, 2015 23:01:10 GMT -5
all I can say is a cordless impact really prevents alot of headaches when working on these things haha Doesn't even have to be cordless. Maybe we should keep this a secret?
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Post by Elektrey on May 18, 2015 23:03:14 GMT -5
all I can say is a cordless impact really prevents alot of headaches when working on these things haha Doesn't even have to be cordless. Maybe we should keep this a secret? nope doesn't have to be cordless, just helps out I imagine haha.
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