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Post by 2strokd on Nov 24, 2015 16:30:30 GMT -5
At least it was a piston.. This is a Malossi 47mm until with tons of hours/miles. It ran, ran pretty good. No real rattles to worry about. Glad the owner decided to have me look.. Any ideas as to how? Ive seen allot of failure and i like to figure out why, what caused it. This one has me so far. No time to dig for info, gotta go back to work. Looks like battery acid was dumped in the jug in this one.. It did have a small coolant leak letting coolant into the cylinder. If it were oil related the piston sides would be screwed. The sides have pretty much normal wear with this kinda mileage. Feel free to share ideas, reasons behind this. Nothing is a bad suggestion, shoot em all out there!
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 24, 2015 17:50:33 GMT -5
I also like to know why/how things happened. I would think possibly coolant leaked then evaporated with the heat of combustion leaving deposits turned to carbon to gradually build up along and compact until it fractured the edges of the piston. Just my guess. Edit to add: All that carbon got red hot and melted the piston?
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Post by spaz12 on Nov 24, 2015 18:55:49 GMT -5
It looks like it ran for a while after those pieces broke off. Look at the build up on top of where the broken metal is.
I'm at a loss for the weird build up as well, because water is good at removing carbon, isn't it? It also looks like molten metal. Or was molten. It's freaking bizarre :/
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Post by Corrosion on Nov 24, 2015 21:34:58 GMT -5
Detonation, for one. From the looks of things.
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Post by moofus02 on Nov 24, 2015 21:59:19 GMT -5
That is detonation for sure. You said it had a coolant leak? Antifreeze will cause detonation and that nightmare for sure. I learned the hard way. You got lucky. Flush the pipe before it goes back togather. I would flush the cases for good measure
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Post by spaz12 on Nov 25, 2015 2:12:25 GMT -5
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Post by 2strokd on Nov 26, 2015 10:50:33 GMT -5
WoW, you guys are great and thank you for that link spaz! Good info there! Well, you were all right. Too much of not enough of what it needed more of to be enough. And over enough=too much of 30weight engine oil in the doublestroke oil tank Yep, its a tongue twist but combined with the coolant leak, the engine had (yes) 30 weight "motor" engine oil ran through it for miles before corrected. So, too hot of plug, coolant, 30 weight fourstroke engine oil, and many miles will net you this.. And yes, what luck to catch it in this condition before massive failure! It had to be a few starts away if not even one more?.. Its all back together and running snappy as ever all but WOT. Its way too rich at full throttle now. All in all this backs one of my favorite iron street kits even more. Ive had the Malossi iron lung on my list of good DD choices for some time... Ide still never guessed this would work. You couldnt convince me this engine ran with that piston had i not started it myself and listened. Shit, i was gonna give it back to the customer it ran that good. He asked me to look at the rings/piston and check specs. I gotta say though, them rings sealed great! Glad he did as a failure like this right after a repair never looks good on us. Even the most honest mechanic gets the stink eye over this kinda thing. Like ide want your engine to shit the bed with my prints and name all over it?!?!?! It happens tho.. Ive shown people how and whys only to have them push the scooter back after they figured they could go port an intake or open up an airbox without tuning for the change. Thats how i usually get my "Sunday pistons".. Those holy kinda less forgiving cause i gave it all away in one molten meltdown pistons. Great way to work together nailin another weirdo failure in the works team
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Post by triesandluth on Nov 27, 2015 17:07:51 GMT -5
It looks like it ran for a while after those pieces broke off. Look at the build up on top of where the broken metal is. I'm at a loss for the weird build up as well, because water is good at removing carbon, isn't it? It also looks like molten metal. Or was molten. It's freaking bizarre :/ I had a head gasket leak on my super 9 with my hoca kit due to a cracked head also letting in coolant. The piston was almost clean like new when I pulled it out. But everything else on mine was kosher, fuel, oil, plug, etc. The predetonation looks right. Can't believe it ran!
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Post by 2strokd on Nov 30, 2015 10:08:57 GMT -5
That LC junks what saved it kinda and killed it.. I hate fuckin with LC crap but it pays my addiction so WTF right? Just prepare for coolant everywhere and a bunch of BS leaks (in used shit anyway).. A well tuned AC machine can do all that and more and without the weight and hassle. That blanket of water and extra lead (weight) around the jug drown the rattle and other warning noises ida heard if itd been AC. I lol, when i see a LC drag scoot. There is almost no point unless you cant tune a cylinder and you only run them right outta the box. There is a peak performance sweet spot temp for every engine. Once you find that and can tune to keep it and get the best power AC or LC your gonna win without blowing your shit up or lookin as dumb as Jhall out there with over 232cc,s and NO2. No matter the build it aint gonna hang with this white boy and his ole southern back and the built scrap we bring LC has zero advantage in drag racing unless you are racing back to back hotlappin and have the tune the wont let you cool down for the next round upon return. Ive got my secrets, thats right secrets.. Some are best kept for the few that deserve em! We, me and my southern hill bound poor boy with more brains than money ever buys made our AC (out of the trashcan Literally) run right with a scooter with an estimated $4-5000 or more even into the engine. LC, Malossi 95cc MHR i think it was lol. Roost, inner iggy, NO2, you name it they had it.. My guy threw a portin in that ole trash can jug that was almost spot with the screamers, then refined a pipe for the new smaller cc engine and we ran right with them. In fact would have stomped em but ive had a strain of WTF,s with weather and Air density changes that have always made that scoot drop power a bit there. Even up to 1,000 in peak RPM but still ran low 9,s We always joked 8,s home scoot, 9s drag scoot. Weve since ironed those bugs out with support from sponsored parts to better tune. Or tuning tools i should say. Air density helped a ton Reggie Sorry for rambling on... The scooter is fixed and screams! When the guy gets used to it more he is going to bring it back for an adjustment so it will go past 3/4 throttle. He needed to get used to wheelies and it spinning the tire when he tried to leave. I kept saying if you just pin the throttle like you used to its gonna stand up or go the other way so be careful and ease into it until your used to the response now. Guess what he did and with a wet road. Yep, he did
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Post by triesandluth on Nov 30, 2015 18:37:12 GMT -5
I agree totally about the coolant being a pain in the ass. Wanna check the piston, prepare for a mess. Water pump issues, here ya go, a mess. I've almost converted because of it. Instead I just bought an air cooled...
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Dec 6, 2015 15:59:38 GMT -5
Mmmm? That's weriod as hell.!!! I have used water many many times to clear the valves on old 327"s and 302"s basically any old v8 with a carb..... Just get the engine hot and poor some water in the carb while it's running and bam it will clean the piston and valves...... Done it many times ..... Never seen that kinda build up ...
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Post by 2strokd on Dec 6, 2015 23:30:39 GMT -5
He ran 30 weight engine oil in it through the injector.. Im guessing thats the main factor?
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Post by spaz12 on Dec 7, 2015 3:16:36 GMT -5
Mmmm? That's weriod as hell.!!! I have used water many many times to clear the valves on old 327"s and 302"s basically any old v8 with a carb..... Just get the engine hot and poor some water in the carb while it's running and bam it will clean the piston and valves...... Done it many times ..... Never seen that kinda build up ... My grandfather used to have a car (I think Chrysler Cordova?) that had water injection. That's when I learned that water would clean the carbon.
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Post by 2strokd on Dec 7, 2015 10:17:43 GMT -5
Thats great man! Some of my best and simplest lessons in life were taught by my great grandfather.. And "new technology" is hardly ever new.. Lol, piston cooling jets for instance.. Been in ole Detroit 2T,s since the 30s-40s..
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Post by ryan_ott on Dec 7, 2015 21:09:34 GMT -5
Thats great man! Some of my best and simplest lessons in life were taught by my great grandfather.. Mine taught me to braze when I was about 7. Fond memories!
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