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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 23, 2017 4:06:21 GMT -5
Hi!.. i had some awesome help on my original post, and kind of wanted to keep on posting there, but that is in the welcome section or whatever, and i figured i should probably try posting in this section instead of continuing there.
ok. so i have a scooter that i couldn't get to spark , but i changed the cdi box (after a whole lot of poring over wiring diagrams and whatnot) and that got me spark!
I managed to get the scooter to start up but only for a few seconds, and only once did i make that happen without the aid of a quick blast of starting fluid before hitting the start button.
I already cleaned the carb out twice. here's some quick details that i thought might be helpful:
1- starting fluid, as i already mentioned, helps. alot. 2- the carb , after trying a few times to start her up, leaks. like significant amounts of gasoline. seems to be coming from the overflow thing on the very bottom of the carburetor? 3- oh, when trying to start it, i have to hold the starter button down for a minute while the engine builds up whatever it is that it needs to stay running on its own, if that makes any sense?
any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2017 7:00:59 GMT -5
The hose on the bottom of the carb is not an overflow. That's a bowl drain. If there's a screw on the hose or beside the hose, tighten it to stop the flow. If you don't the bowl is draining the fuel that gets into it. So your petcock shuts off fuel when the engine isn't running, that's why it would only overflow while running or maybe briefly after. You've got an empty bowl with no fuel to pick up to get it started, so the starter fluid gets it to start and it starts to deliver fuel to the bowl... but it can never get to a proper fuel level because it's always draining.
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 23, 2017 7:42:16 GMT -5
The hose on the bottom of the carb is not an overflow. That's a bowl drain. If there's a screw on the hose or beside the hose, tighten it to stop the flow. If you don't the bowl is draining the fuel that gets into it. So your petcock shuts off fuel when the engine isn't running, that's why it would only overflow while running or maybe briefly after. You've got an empty bowl with no fuel to pick up to get it started, so the starter fluid gets it to start and it starts to deliver fuel to the bowl... but it can never get to a proper fuel level because it's always draining. Thank you for clarifying that. I feel like a moron. Lol. I am really new to the whole scooter thing, but I'm not really eager to use my noob-issue Mulligans if I can get around it. I've tightened up the screw next to the drain, hopefully it will make a difference. Of course, first I have to figure out why it's acting like there's no power running to it at all all of a sudden.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 23, 2017 8:00:32 GMT -5
We all have to learn. I have done and still do many less than brilliant things to scooters.
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 27, 2017 0:11:58 GMT -5
We all have to learn. I have done and still do many less than brilliant things to scooters. You are kind. Good news, though! I got the scooter to start and stay running! I broke the cap thing though that holds onto the spark plug.. I broke off the screw that goes into the coil wire. So, I ended up breaking off most of the hard plastic that insulated the general area file the screw so it was pointy again, screwed it on as far as I could, then secured the wire in place with a LOT of that electrical tape that sticks to itself? It's holding. For now. My headlights won't turn on at all though.. can't figure it out
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 27, 2017 9:13:09 GMT -5
You can get NGK plug caps that are better quality than the stock and Chinese performance stuff pretty cheap if you want to replace that end. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/493/spark-plug-tips-bootsThe scooter most likely has to be running for the headlights to work. Not a bad idea to check the connection at the bulb as well as at the handlebar switches. You can look for power and ground at the connectors. Make sure the bulb(s) isn't visibly bad or just try a new one if you have one on hand. If both filaments or bulbs are just blown, you may have a rectifier/regulator issue that causes too much voltage and blows out bulbs. You'll often find the tail light bulb blown in that case, sometimes even dash lights.
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 27, 2017 15:56:44 GMT -5
The scooter most likely has to be running for the headlights to work. Not a bad idea to check the connection at the bulb as well as at the handlebar switches. You can look for power and ground at the connectors. Make sure the bulb(s) isn't visibly bad or just try a new one if you have one on hand. If both filaments or bulbs are just blown, you may have a rectifier/regulator issue that causes too much voltage and blows out bulbs. You'll often find the tail light bulb blown in that case, sometimes even dash lights. Ok, so, it took a minute for my brain to register everything I've read in the tech section of this forum and find a way to apply it in my own situation, but I think that it did. So, I thought that the headlight might be shorting out because the housing for it is kind of old and crappy, so I checked for continuity between the headlight+ wires at the pigtail connector and there was continuity. I figured this was not good and I knew it couldn't be my top harness job cuz I knew I did that right lol. Either way I unplugged stuff and checked at all the different plug connectors for continuity between the yellow wire and the frame And it became clear to me that this was not simply a stray bit of wire accidentally touching the frame.. I was about to give up on unplugging and rechecking when I unplugged the auto bystart. When I unplugged it and -checked for continuity from the yellow wire to the frame, there was none. Then I plugged it back in, and the continuity is back. What does it all mean, basil?
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Post by AtariGuy on Jun 27, 2017 20:31:30 GMT -5
The bystarter term took me a second to register. Lol we generally have called it the auto enrichment circuit or autochoke (even though it isnt actually a choke).
To explain it, its a heat coil inside a sealed wax filled unit. The continuity you get is the coil that goes from the ignition on hot wire to ground while the scoot is running. Unplugging it opens that branch of the circuit to ground. It'll be a continuity point, perhaps look at where that sits in the whole yellow wire circuit
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 27, 2017 20:56:28 GMT -5
The bystarter term took me a second to register. Lol we generally have called it the auto enrichment circuit or autochoke (even though it isnt actually a choke). To explain it, its a heat coil inside a sealed wax filled unit. The continuity you get is the coil that goes from the ignition on hot wire to ground while the scoot is running. Unplugging it opens that branch of the circuit to ground. It'll be a continuity point, perhaps look at where that sits in the whole yellow wire circuit Ok so, I'm usually a pretty good learner. But... Can I ask you to dumb that whole paragraph down for me just a bit? I don't quite follow.. I can tell you that the continuity between yellow and the frame of the bike was not affected by me turning the main switch to "off". I finally picked up a brand new 12v battery today, so I was about to change the CDI back to the old one and see if it worked with a battery actually hooked up to it
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Post by AtariGuy on Jun 27, 2017 22:27:04 GMT -5
Check out the first picture on this post 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/2556/wiring-diagramsIt shows the electrical you're trying to trace through right now. You'll see the auto enricher right at the beginning of the circuit even before the key and yellow lighting wire in brents illustration. That enricher is a direct path to ground as its only a coil of electrical heating wire, no internal switches to turn it on or off. Lets put it this way, say you're checking the continuity of a burnt out head light, it would show no path/infinite ohms. If you added the enricher parallel to the headlight, it would read a full path/low ohms because it doesn't see the open path of the headlight, only the complete path of the choke. Unplug your enricher and check for continuity through your upper lighting circuit again.
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Post by AtariGuy on Jun 27, 2017 22:49:34 GMT -5
For some general electrical terms, an open circuit is like a cut wire, its not a circuit. A closed circuit would be a full loop, a complete circuit. A short would be an unwanted shortcut in a circuit. Its like when insulation rubs off a wire and touches the metal frame. Not only does the rest of the circuit not get power, but if the fuse don't blow like it should, you could start an electrical fire.
Switches (ignition, kill, high/low beam, and brake lever types) are user input to close and open circuits on purpose. Fuses burn out (open) to protect from an overload of current (like a short.) Relays are electrically timed switches that are designed to open and close. Think turn signals.
Just wait til we get to all the things a feller can do with alternating current, modulation, an oscilloscope, and signal generators...
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 27, 2017 23:56:50 GMT -5
For some general electrical terms, an open circuit is like a cut wire, its not a circuit. A closed circuit would be a full loop, a complete circuit. A short would be an unwanted shortcut in a circuit. Its like when insulation rubs off a wire and touches the metal frame. Not only does the rest of the circuit not get power, but if the fuse don't blow like it should, you could start an electrical fire. Switches (ignition, kill, high/low beam, and brake lever types) are user input to close and open circuits on purpose. Fuses burn out (open) to protect from an overload of current (like a short.) Relays are electrically timed switches that are designed to open and close. Think turn signals. Just wait til we get to all the things a feller can do with alternating current, modulation, an oscilloscope, and signal generators... Thank you for not making fun of me. lol. So, I think I understand now what you mean about the enricher being a direct path to ground, and I thank you for helping me understand that. I got the wiring all double checked again, battery installed, ac CDI installed again and still I have a couple of issues.. 1) still no headlights. 2) push button start does absolutely nothing whatsoever. I got the scooter going by Kickstarter a couple times but with all the moving around of stuff , the throttle cable needed adjusting again but it's really idling quite nicely now. Oh, also, I removed the ghetto Fab busted headlight assembly and mounted a brand new KC light to the scooter (after removing the horn to make room.) The headlight Comes on but dims out and seems to bog down the engine.. Am I making any major mistakes?
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Post by beaverhausen on Jun 28, 2017 0:02:44 GMT -5
For some general electrical terms, an open circuit is like a cut wire, its not a circuit. A closed circuit would be a full loop, a complete circuit. A short would be an unwanted shortcut in a circuit. Its like when insulation rubs off a wire and touches the metal frame. Not only does the rest of the circuit not get power, but if the fuse don't blow like it should, you could start an electrical fire. Switches (ignition, kill, high/low beam, and brake lever types) are user input to close and open circuits on purpose. Fuses burn out (open) to protect from an overload of current (like a short.) Relays are electrically timed switches that are designed to open and close. Think turn signals. Just wait til we get to all the things a feller can do with alternating current, modulation, an oscilloscope, and signal generators... Thank you for not making fun of me. lol. So, I think I understand now what you mean about the enricher being a direct path to ground, and I thank you for helping me understand that. I got the wiring all double checked again, battery installed, ac CDI installed again and still I have a couple of issues.. 1) still no headlights. 2) push button start does absolutely nothing whatsoever. I got the scooter going by Kickstarter a couple times but with all the moving around of stuff , the throttle cable needed adjusting again but it's really idling quite nicely now. Oh, also, I removed the ghetto Fab busted headlight assembly and mounted a brand new KC light to the scooter (after removing the horn to make room.) The headlight Comes on but dims out and seems to bog down the engine.. Am I making any major mistakes? Thanks again for the help
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Post by FrankenMech on Jun 28, 2017 0:19:42 GMT -5
The new headlight draws too much power. The stator power output is severely limited, maybe 40W and some is used for battery charging and other lights like the tail light. There are threads here on headlight mods.
You will need to chase down the wiring for the start button. The brake lever must engage the brake light switch to apply power to the starter switch circuit, it is called an interlock. Some scoots have other interlock switches in the starter circuit. Interlocks are switches set up to make sure it is safe to do something like start the scoot.
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Post by AtariGuy on Jun 28, 2017 8:38:06 GMT -5
Awesome! We get to learn about Ohm's Law and voltage, amperage, resistance, and watts!!
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