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Post by snaker on Sept 6, 2018 9:39:55 GMT -5
Wow that's topic for a new thread , ( Shifting not shifting changing ratios ) lol Just playing with you guys lol I say changing ratios lol GSXR600racer is right if you have hard hitting motor and you have that slight angled slot you can hear and feel it , it is hard on belts and the more power or harder hitting motor you have the more it chews the belt up lol Then you loose top speed I disagree with your verdict on the Torque Sensing being the direct cause of belt damage. Since it teams up with the contra spring in the tug-of-war against the fly weights it does cause some additional force on the belt, but I think that would normally be well within the range of what the belt can handle.
I think the bigger problem is that folks tend to ratchet up the weight/spring combination. More weight, stronger spring. more weight. That's what really stress's the belt.
And of course adding more hp strains the belt.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Sept 6, 2018 11:09:50 GMT -5
I can Agree with that assertion , no one part in that system causes the added wear it's a team effort ! Your probably right you when you stick a strong spring against heavy weights add a ported race horse in the mix and a 200 pound rider on a pipey motor you get a Strong man tug a war with the belt ! I think we got off topic sorry but i enjoy the conversation anytime , it's hard finding a group of people who care or have experience in this subject matter as i do !
Thanks
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Post by katt on Sept 8, 2018 6:34:33 GMT -5
What components provide "torque sensing" inside GY6 CVT contra spring and variator weight? Any examples of basic non torque sensing CVT what mechanism they use to shift gears (move belt up and down)?
Tested my current belt on center stand. Green lines is how it should be in fully open position (overdrive mode).
Conclusion - even though variator pushes belt all the way up its not all way down inside torque converter because belt too long and slack of belt pushed out by contra spring to the point when i am getting only 1:1 gear ratio instead of getting overdrive gear ratio.
Another problem with this at fully open variator pulls harder than contra spring holds the belt since its not compressed all way therefore possibly causing belt slipping trough clutch pulley and wearing out.
At this point obvious problem is belt.
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Post by snaker on Sept 8, 2018 9:43:07 GMT -5
Torque Sensing is all about the angle. These systems have angled slots in the driven pulley that follow guide pins. As the moveable sheave opens outward it also rotates in relation to the fixed sheave because of those angled slots. That allows the moveable pulley to gain additional leverage from abnormal loads and teams up with the contra spring to overpower the drive pulley flyweights to resist upshifts and force downshifts.
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Post by katt on Sept 8, 2018 23:23:33 GMT -5
Okay i have installed new belt and still getting the same angle it does not go all the way down on torque converter because stock variator does not open far enough.
Another thing is that belt i ordered sucks big time i am not going to go for Gates belts ever again it supposed to be OD 660mm and it was 670mm when i measured, perhaps old one i got was not 669mm, but 680 out of the box i did not check. (Measured incorrectly)
Even though with new belt now i am getting 35MPH @ 6800 RPM and 40-41MPH @ 8000RPM
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Post by gsx600racer on Sept 9, 2018 0:27:24 GMT -5
Here is a thought......
Measure from the center of the variator pulley to the outer diameter(or just measure the OD). Then do the same for the rear pulley. You are are going to find out that the variator is smaller in diameter than the rear pulley.
If both front and rear are equal diameter then you would get the "angle" your seeking with equal travel from both front an rear pulleys.
You can run a shorter belt, but its going to ride lower in the rear pulley on take takeoff hence your starting in a "higher" gear or ratio so your takeoff accelerating is going to suffer.
As for Gates belts, there are a lot of "copies" out there chances are you got one. If they say its Gates, look at the P/N thats advertised in the specs(not on the cardboard label), chances are its not a real Gates #.
You can beat this "angle" thing to death, but your never going to get the results YOU want. Best case is you get a belt that sits at the very top of the rear pulley and sits at the very bottom of the variator on takeoff. Where you end a your highest speed (belt angle) is where your going to end with the belt riding as close to the top in the front(variator)pulley. They might make a "overrange" variator, ramp plate with a steeper angle, using sliders vs rollers, or a shorter drive boss, but these iters will have some effect on the scooter performance @ takeoff. Plus previous mods will only give you only a few extra mph's.
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Post by katt on Sept 9, 2018 2:26:41 GMT -5
Stock variator in Chinese GY6 is limited on purpose... Seen this video i were going to comment but its from 2013, on QMB139 stock variator will not open all way (belt will not go all way up until you modify variator (perhaps slider weights can make it open wider) or replace variator to aftermarket. Consequence of that belt will not go all the way down in clutch. You can verify this if you mark variator and clutch pulley inside with marker (Vertical line trough and then run little and check how far belt traveled.
Just realized i was measuring belt incorrectly old belt is not stretched at all! Its just got from 18mm to 17mm wide and i think problem with speed loss comes from belt width change, not sure why width is so important?
Now because of wrong diameter measurement i got smaller 660mm belt thinking it will stretch over time anyway, but again i measured it wrong it is 660mm, its original belt this is why i order from RockAuto not eBay.
Now here is what i got
I have about same market mark on the lower part of clutch pulley and shaft so it does not go all way down.
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Post by scooterpimp on Sept 9, 2018 14:04:44 GMT -5
Ok everyone go into a corner for "Time Out"....
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Post by snaker on Sept 9, 2018 15:17:02 GMT -5
Katt,Katt,Katt, I noticed something. You seem to have about a dozen major issues floating around at any one time on these forums. Never in a post do you mention the other problems your having. When someone offers advice you seem to ignore it. If someone narrows in on a solution based on the symptoms that you describe, you seem to veer off into left field . You either have the biggest black cloud in history over your head or your causing your own problems or your jerkin with everyone. Which ever it is, keep posting. Kind of like doing the puzzle page.
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Post by katt on Sept 9, 2018 19:09:16 GMT -5
Katt,Katt,Katt, I noticed something. You seem to have about a dozen major issues floating around at any one time on these forums. Never in a post do you mention the other problems your having. When someone offers advice you seem to ignore it. If someone narrows in on a solution based on the symptoms that you describe, you seem to veer off into left field .You either have the biggest black cloud in history over your head or your causing your own problems or your jerkin with everyone. Which ever it is, keep posting. Kind of like doing the puzzle page. Guess that's me i been told that on many forums
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Post by snaker on Sept 9, 2018 19:22:02 GMT -5
Ah that's pretty funny. Cheers
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Sept 10, 2018 15:40:43 GMT -5
I pretty much gave up trying to maximize CVT operation. Kind of like beating a slug to death trying to make it run as fast as a tortoise/turtle. Not a rabbit/hare. These little bitty engines sing like hummingbird wings flap - very high speed. Sometimes it is almost as if you could grab hold to the blower wheel/variator and bring it to a stop by hand. There's just not a lot of torque available. Max the acceleration, and top speed will take a hit. Lower the max rpms, and acceleration will suffer. It is all a min/max problem with multiple valid solutions, and none will get all that is desired. I figure I just want the mess to idle fine, grab hold when I rap it up, accelerate with confidence, no slippy-slip-slip, and the engine not be screaming above 7k by too much. If I can get that, I feel I am getting more than a lot of other people are getting. I just sold a Taotao that did that... nothing special, nothing special done by me to the gizzards of the CVT nor the belt. On a slight downhill, it would peg the speedo @80kph, but I did not measure with any sort of GPS, and I think it(speedo) was on some sort of happy drugs that made it optimistic to a great degree. Don't care. It climbed the hill with throttle left over, and would get up and go, faster than I felt was safe. I hope the new owner is as satisfied as I was. Thank you. tom
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