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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 11, 2018 20:52:12 GMT -5
Does anyone know what the stock clutch springs are on a 50cc 2018 TaoTao Th under? I have a slow takeoff and a few stop signs that are on an uphill slope. Was wanting to replace the springs but not sure where to start. I don’t have an rpm gauge yet. The things I have done so far per 90GTVert are: 1. Replace fuel and vacume hoses 2. Lock tight bolts and did a 90GTVert PDI. 3. Replaced Carb with adjustable. 4. Replaced CDI with blue amazon aftermarket. 5 . Changed gear and motor oil right out of the gate after running the engine for 30 minutes at idle. 6. Replaced Spark plug with NGK iridium 7. Replaced spark plug boot with NGK.
I still have not ordered carb jets, rollers, or clutch springs. Still don’t know if I want to replace exhaust or go to pod style air intake. I have a few overpasses I drive on that kill my speed on the way up. I have been driving it for about a month and have about 150 miles on it. Also really want to do the trail tech gauge upgrade as well. Just FYI I am about a 240lb rider . Any suggestions on were to go next for upgrades would be appreciated.
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 12, 2018 11:01:06 GMT -5
Stock springs are stock springs. Sorry if that's an odd answer, but here's why. If you are thinking of them like the performance aftermarket springs that say something like 1,000RPM, 1,500RPM, 2,000RPM... then you have to understand that those ratings are based on what they hope to accomplish compared to stock. So 1,000RPM springs would hopefully engage about 1,000RPM above stock. That would mean stock would be called 0RPM I suppose, but those aren't for sale. They're just stock clutch springs for a 139QMB. Clutch springs aren't too expensive, so I usually just buy a set of 1,000, 1,500, and 2,000RPM clutch springs and try them to find out what the scooter likes. Best bang for the buck mods are getting the carb and CVT in tune and installing a big bore kit.
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Post by islandscrub on Oct 12, 2018 15:44:29 GMT -5
Try changing your center spring to a 1500 see how that goes on the hills. Anything higher than 1500 is hell on the belt, but heavier riders we sometimes put in 2K or 2500 if available. Don't forget to bleed out the carb every day for a week, you'll notice a lot of brown stuff coming out, that's the preservative they put in there. Just crack it till its clear then close off until its always clear.
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 12, 2018 16:06:18 GMT -5
Thanks guys. That is really helpful! 90GTVert I did watched your YouTube video on changing the springs. Actually I think I have watched all of your Taotao and pdi videos. Really good stuff! I am wanting to stay with the 50cc setup for now but may end up doing the 47mm BBK in the future. So you said they had preservatives that have a brown residue. I am ussumimg you are referring to the carb itself? If so I did not realize that. When I do some further tweaking on the carb I will give it a good cleaning. I have a decent order from amazon with the 1000, 1500, 2000rpm spring sets, pilot and main jet set, 6 gram sliders, maxima scooter 4t oil, new belt as a backup, and some rearview mirror extenders. I am gonna keep the stock air box and just fully deristrict it for now. My gas gauge is a month old and already went out. I have taken the float out and I can’t get it to respond... it does have a 6 month warranty from killer motor sports. They have not been very responsive in the past though. Gonna take my housing off my cvt and see what size belt my thunder uses this evening and then place my order. Next week will be fun to try out all the mods.
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Post by islandscrub on Oct 12, 2018 16:34:46 GMT -5
You can clean the whole carb since you said you got a serviceable one, should be similar results. The bikes we sell don't have that, so the 'drain the bowl' tip is the only option. Works well enough.
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 12, 2018 18:30:09 GMT -5
I have heard that Chinese scooters were unreliable but mine is messing up a month in. Are there any solutions to upgrade this? I can just count mileage but a Guatemalan would be nice. Here is a video I made showing what it is doing. youtu.be/yqgSLN1I8e4
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Post by islandscrub on Oct 12, 2018 18:42:11 GMT -5
Looks like a bad sensor, or the wire is broken along the way. Check the wire leads and connectors first, then look at the sensor for poor connection, else, change it out. I hope the ring wasn't loose like that when you got it!
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Oct 12, 2018 19:43:25 GMT -5
I don’t know why you want to screw with your clutch springs and put in 6 g sliders. IMHO, going to the new sliders is just going to make things worse. The reason you can’t get moving on a hill is because the bike is only 3 hp. If anything, I would be going lighter on your weights. That would raise the RPM when you are taking off and hopefully give you effectively a lower gear
In my experince going to the after market CDI is a complete waste of money. All that cdi does is run at full advance all the time. Makes it harder to start and give less power at low RPMs while giving no additional power at high RPMs. Like wise, I don’t understand why you are replacing the hoses... I mean, as I understand it, this is a new bike with like 150 miles on it.
My personal opinion is to never let a new engine (or new BBK) idle. At idle the bike has very poor oil pressure. In fact I set my throttle stop screw so “idle” is about 3000 rpm for the first 5 hours or so. If you ever do a BBK, I hope you will think of that on first start up.
Have you pulled your plug to see how the mixture is yet? Most of the bikes I have worked on around have been jetted way too lean. But I’m at about 200 ft above sea level.
Likewise, I don’t see any real advance in spending the money on an expensive plug. This is not a high compression high rpm racing motor here.
While I use cone filters on my bikes, I would not suggest it for a bike that is to be driven on the street as daily transportation. I use them because I have my engine apart and back together all the time and it’s a whole lot easer to do with a cone filter. Does it give you more power? Not a measurable amount. In truth, you need more torque to get you moving, not really hp. The best ways to build torque is more compression or more displacement. The stock engine is already 10.5 to 1, so you can’t incresse compression much and still burn pump gas. Which means you need more displacement.
Let’s go back to the start. Your engine is designed to give you 3 hp at 7500 rpms. When you open the throttle, your bike should quickly rise up to 7500 rpms. If it’s doing that, don’t mess with the balance of the CVT. If it only goes up to, say 6500, then go to lighter weights so the RPMs come up.
,there is a very good chance that your bike is not giving you its 3 hp right now. So let’s work on the jetting first. Don’t mess with the ignition, and I would recommend you don’t mess with the CVT, unless it’s not going up to the 7500 area when opening the throttle. I would not waste your money on an aftermarket exaust. About the only thing they do is save a little weight and change the sound. It is possible to increese HP with a different exaust system, but I have not seen any for sale. The exaust systems we have, along with the intake systems we have, do make a measurable difference, but I have never seen anything for sale that is like it. Plus, we are very loud!
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Oct 12, 2018 20:01:44 GMT -5
Ok, I guess I mis read the first post. I thought these were things you were going to do instead of had already done. I would love to see you do an experiment. It’s real easy to swap the CDI. I would love you to find a stretch of road that has very little traffic. Mark a start spot, ten nail it until you get to about 25 mph and make that spot. Now make a few runs from a standing start. If possible, time the runs, but if not just get the mph at the end of the run
Then go back to your stock cdi, and do the same thing. I’m willing to bet the after market cdi is no faster and is no quicker. I have tested 7 different preformance CDIs, and none have been quicker or faster, and every one has made the bike harder to start. If you have a long strict flat road, to the same thing to get top speed. Remember each time start from a dead stop and try very hard to do it the same way each time.
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 12, 2018 22:13:27 GMT -5
I decided to change the spark plug and boot, fuel and vacuum lines, and carb after watching 90GTVerts PDI. So I went through my bike and I am glad I did. I had a few electrical connections not plugged in all the way and the fuel line out of the tank wasn’t connected. I really don’t regret doing any of it. The CDI was 6 bucks. I like to tinker and work on my own stuff and see how I can improve performance. I am not an expert and that is why I am here asking questions. The springs and sliders are for testing and are after me searching g for 2 weeks on how to help takeoff. . I do t want to put a BBK on this bike. I’m not wanting a powerhouse scooter or I would have bought a 150cc or better. I drive three miles to work where and back Monday through Friday. I don’t have a scooter repair shop and I definitely don’t claim I know everything. Unfortunately the only info I had was YouTube. I have jets ordered and will be tuning the carb when they come in. As lame as it may sound, this is my only hobby and I am trying to learn. You gotta start somewhere. I’ll swap the CDI back tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for the advice!
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 12, 2018 22:15:10 GMT -5
Looks like a bad sensor, or the wire is broken along the way. Check the wire leads and connectors first, then look at the sensor for poor connection, else, change it out. I hope the ring wasn't loose like that when you got it! I will check that. The ring was tight and I loosened it to check the float out.
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Oct 13, 2018 12:25:28 GMT -5
The reason I mentioned the cdi is that it may hurt you rather then I prove something. For $6 you can throw it out if it doesn’t inprove your preformance, but there is no sense in leaving something in that hurts your rideability. As far as the clutch springs and weights, it fine to experiment, but I really would not recommend doing so until you have a tach so you can see what RPMs you are working with. As far as the weights, this is my read on that. I’m sure you know how the variation works. Basicly the weight push out on levers on the outside of the drum. That pressure makes the drive wheel move to, in effect, give you a higher gear. That is balanced by the torque spring on the clutch side. We increese that pressure by speeding up the RPMs or by increasing the weight. Heavier weights make the drive wheel move at a lower RPM. In effect heavier weights make the CVT shift to a higher gear ratio at a lower RPM. Now your little engine has 3 hp at 7500 rpm. At say 6000 rpm, it may only have 2 hp. So if you put in heavier weights, it’s like trying to take off in 2nd gear. In your case (and mine by the way) this little scoot has a much heavier load to try to get moving. We want that CVT right at 7500 rpm, and we want to tune up the engine to run as good at 7500 rpm as possible. This is why you should get a tach hooked up before you start screwing with the CVT or clutch.
Reason I would have preferred going with cheap plugs is so you can get a good reading on fresh plugs while doing plug chops to get the mixture right. Most of these guys start out really lean. When you gut the air filter, that tends to make them even more lean. Lean means running hot. I always want a mixture that gives me a tan reading. Best power/heat balance
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 13, 2018 23:21:49 GMT -5
Alright I have ordered a tack and I placed the factory CDI back in. I did one short test drive. Didn’t have time to do any real testing. Jets should arrive on Monday. I will pull the plug and see what it looks like. I bought the iridium plug because everyone said that it last longer. I will take a picture of it and upload if here. Hey I appreciate all the help and advice!
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Post by Harry Harris on Oct 21, 2018 19:00:49 GMT -5
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ratdog
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 342
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Post by ratdog on Oct 22, 2018 7:52:59 GMT -5
Th e only part of the plug we worry about is the insulator. We would like that to be a nice tan color. From the pic, it looks like your running a little bit lean. Of course if you are pulling restrictions out of the air box, that will make it run a little bit leaner. Just off the wall guess, I would say go richer by about 7 points. (If stock jet were , say 76, then add 7 and go around 83). Frankly, that is a lot better plug then I expected based on the bikes I see. Most have a pure white insulator, which is dead lean
While you have the carb off, carefully take off the top and check out the needle. Many carbs will have more then one slot. While I wouldn’t suggest changing it now, it’s good to know that you have the option of changing it later.
BTW, incase you didn’t figure it out by now, I also screw with these things as a hobby. Of course I also have a drag racing hobby to keep me busy, but I can modify a whole scooter engine for what it cost for just a set of cams for one of my drag bikes
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