coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24 
Location: USA
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Post by coachm on Feb 25, 2019 8:52:56 GMT -5
I gave my son a TaoTao Racer 50 for Christmas. We live 1.4 miles from his school and being that he is 15 now he can ride it to school. The stock setup was maxing out at 28mph. The speed limit is 35mph on the road to school and he isn't moving fast enough to keep up safely with the flow of traffic. We purchased the full Performance Part Kit from Amazon and have installed every component. The top speed is still 30 mph after everything... The bike cranked up after the initial install immediately but the performance just isn't there. Looking for help from the experienced scooter community. Tao Tao Racer 50 Current Setup (Almost Everything in Kit)BBK - Cylinder, Piston, Head Changed Rocker Arms, Spaced to .004 A-9 Cam New Carb with 100 main Jet Removed Air Box and Added Air Filter New Variator with 6.5 Rollers 1500 rpm torque spring New kit Exhaust Not Changed - Stock Fuel Pump, The kit pump does not work with the bike, the fuel pump is threaded into the bottom of the tank. - Waiting on delivery of a Gates Kevlar Belt to replace the stock belt. The BBK Install Youtube - My son and I followed along with every step. I would consider myself mechanically inclined but my son is gaining interest in learning about wrenching. We slowly and methodically followed along with the video. The experience of doing this project together was worth more than anything I could ask for. The moment the bike came right to life after the install was great, it was a sense of accomplishment for him. The downside is we didn't get the gains we were after. The bike sounds great and runs great, no ticks, or leaking fluids. We have tried 4 different main jets in the carb. The #85 runs but barely, The #90, #95, & #100 all perform almost identically. The CDI box was an easy swap, the coil needed the green and black wires reversed as mentioned in several videos/forums. NGK Spark plug was also a quick and easy swap. The new Variator and Rollers installed easily, I checked to make sure there was not a spacer added to decrease the Variator performance. Added the Clutch and Compression Springs. IDLE - Bike has a perfect idle. Not worried about the engine dying, 1%-25% Throttle - Bike accelerates slowly but without bogging down. Cannot really tell a difference from the stock setup. WOT - The RPM Guage reads just over 7100 with the new rollers. The Stock Rollers were at 7400 RPMs. Max speed is 30mph. Things I am considering trying-Slightly advancing the timing If anyone has any positive suggestions or ideas we would appreciate the help. If I left anything out information wise that may help please ask and I will try to provide the info. Thanks for the help! Amazon BBK |
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Post by fugaziiv on Feb 25, 2019 9:31:44 GMT -5
Have you done a compression test yet?
Matt
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coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24
Location: USA
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Post by coachm on Feb 25, 2019 11:03:32 GMT -5
Good idea Matt, I will do a test as soon as possible this week and report my findings.
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Post by fugaziiv on Feb 25, 2019 11:20:42 GMT -5
Good idea Matt, I will do a test as soon as possible this week and report my findings. Yeah, we've been seeing more and more of the Ebay/Amazon BBK kits showing compression high enough to run, but not enough to show any quantifiable performance upgrade over stock. There's usually not a whole lot of QC that's is done on those kits before they ship. For example, we often see customers get better performance out of a quality 47mm Naraku kit then they were getting out of their 50mm or even 52mm Ebay kit simply due to machining variances. Matt |
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Post by benji on Feb 25, 2019 11:28:05 GMT -5
Good idea Matt, I will do a test as soon as possible this week and report my findings. Yeah, we've been seeing more and more of the Ebay/Amazon BBK kits showing compression high enough to run, but not enough to show any quantifiable performance upgrade over stock. There's usually not a whole lot of QC that's is done on those kits before they ship. For example, we often see customers get better performance out of a quality 47mm Naraku kit then they were getting out of their 50mm or even 52mm Ebay kit simply due to machining variances. Matt I've actually noticed this myself. I replaced my oem jog 49cc cylinder with an eBay 70cc bbk and it felt like it actually had less power. |
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Post by fugaziiv on Feb 25, 2019 11:41:55 GMT -5
Yeah, we've been seeing more and more of the Ebay/Amazon BBK kits showing compression high enough to run, but not enough to show any quantifiable performance upgrade over stock. There's usually not a whole lot of QC that's is done on those kits before they ship. For example, we often see customers get better performance out of a quality 47mm Naraku kit then they were getting out of their 50mm or even 52mm Ebay kit simply due to machining variances. Matt I've actually noticed this myself. I replaced my oem jog 49cc cylinder with an eBay 70cc bbk and it felt like it actually had less power. Yep. Most of the Ebay/Amazon companies at this point just import the items from China with no QC, and then ship out the parts. It's simply a volume business and they can work out of a storage unit and employ maybe one other person. The problem is that Chinese factories change process all the time, and unless you're on top of your game and checking for changes with each shipment, you'll miss it. We're never the cheapest, since we work hard on the parts that we sell and that requires talented people. Talented people are expensive. I can tell you right now, if I wanted to get rich, I could just do the same as these other sellers do; let my staff go, reduce warehouse size and just sell junk at the lowest cost and stand behind nothing. Needless to say, I'm not getting rich here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ With so many people looking to Ebay or Amazon now to get the most affordable package... well, we get a lot of calls. For a while dexameth was running the hashtag #noEbayBBK, I think maybe we should bring that one back. Matt |
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Post by dexameth on Feb 25, 2019 11:52:32 GMT -5
After the install of everything did you notice it have any more "grunt". It should have been a noticeable change from "spinning up" to get going, to actually feeling it want to take off from a dead stop.
This all boils down to a transmission issue, in my eyes. Pop the CVT cover off, and take a Sharpie and draw a line or two from the outside of the variator down as far towards the center of it as you can. The belt will wear off the Sharpie ink and indicate the amount of belt travel. Do this, with a WOT speed run and see where it's at.
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coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24
Location: USA
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Post by coachm on Feb 25, 2019 11:59:45 GMT -5
DEXAMETH I will try marking the Variator today and will report back my findings.
I see your location says Pinellas Park, Fl. I grew up in Countryside/Clearwater and lived in Seminole for a while before taking a job in SE Georgia.
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Post by dexameth on Feb 25, 2019 12:18:55 GMT -5
DEXAMETH I will try marking the Variator today and will report back my findings. I see your location says Pinellas Park, Fl. I grew up in Countryside/Clearwater and lived in Seminole for a while before taking a job in SE Georgia. Yeah, I've been here in the Clearwater area for about 10 years now... |
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Post by gsx600racer on Feb 25, 2019 12:39:46 GMT -5
I would first suggest that anyone doing the type of swap is to do it in increments.
Upgrade engine first.(bbk, carb, jetting) Then tune that setup.
Then electrical(cdi and coil) Test run those changes(seat dyno)
Then CVT(variator, rollers, drive boss, contra spring, clutch springs) Remember adding on thing at a time and testing.
Yeah, this is a pain in the ass process, but if you add something and it downgrades the performance, you know what the item was.
Slapping everything on at once and the performance is disappointing, you never know which item is giving you problems.
Also remember adding cc's doesn't equal more speed. Your gaining more torque to get you to max speed quicker.
Lets say it take you 40 seconds to get you to top speed, lets say 30 mph, and the engine is struggling to maintain 7000 rpms.(and top speed)
Adding the kit is going to shave off seconds to get you to the top speed, with the added torque you will push pass the 30 mph to 33-37 mph and that extra torque will push the rpms higher, lets say you gain 1000 rpms.(hence the gained speed)
Think of it this way, a VW bug with a wimpy air cooled 4 cyl engine with the transmission stuck in second gear.
Rev the engine and dump the clutch and you probably stall, slip the clutch and acceleration will be slow till you max out that gear range.
Drop a V8 in and do the same thing and you will smoke the tires off till you max out 2nd gear. Again you might gain a few mph's because the added power will overtake the weight and drag of the car.
Scooters only have one gear, top gear. The cvt is there to facilitate you getting to top gear from a dead stop in the most efficient way as possible
Another example,
50cc / 30mph top speed @ 7000 rpms
100 cc / 30mph top speed @ 7000 rpms
The gears in the transmission are the same.(one gear)
The cvt can be tuned to give you speed gains, but it comes with a cost, loss of acceleration.
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coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24
Location: USA
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Post by coachm on Feb 25, 2019 17:46:43 GMT -5
Was able to run the bike for 15 mins after marking the variator. Here is the before and after pictures.  Before ride  After 15 min ride |
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Post by gsx600racer on Feb 25, 2019 18:11:56 GMT -5
Was able to run the bike for 15 mins after marking the variator. Here is the before and after pictures. Before ride After 15 min ride How about sharing a pic of the whole cvt with the cover off. That belt looks like its on the big size. |
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coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24
Location: USA
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Post by coachm on Feb 25, 2019 19:45:08 GMT -5
Was able to run the bike for 15 mins after marking the variator. Here is the before and after pictures. Before ride After 15 min ride How about sharing a pic of the whole cvt with the cover off. That belt looks like its on the big size.   Pics of whole cvt |
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coachm
Scoot Member
All my friends have life goals, I just want to go faster
Posts: 24
Location: USA
|
Post by coachm on Feb 26, 2019 11:06:05 GMT -5
After the install of everything did you notice it have any more "grunt". It should have been a noticeable change from "spinning up" to get going, to actually feeling it want to take off from a dead stop. This all boils down to a transmission issue, in my eyes. Pop the CVT cover off, and take a Sharpie and draw a line or two from the outside of the variator down as far towards the center of it as you can. The belt will wear off the Sharpie ink and indicate the amount of belt travel. Do this, with a WOT speed run and see where it's at. DEXAMETH,
What do you think of the Variator Pictures?
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Post by pinkscoot on Feb 26, 2019 16:43:04 GMT -5
The belt looks to be too wide and not long enough. Its sitting low in the clutch and high on the variatior. It may be an optical illusion but it seems that the belt overhangs the variator boss by just a little bit. You also aren't getting full travel on the variator as the red left on it shows.
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