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Post by scootnewb on Mar 6, 2019 6:31:22 GMT -5
(Kind of long. I am jacked up on coffee and I don't usually have caffeine.) If both have modest mods along with the BBKs, an exhaust, up-jetting, high flow air filter, and any variator restrictions removed, will the 2t be faster or...? My Tao Tao isn't running well and I'm not sure I can fix it. Between that and not wanting to keep spending money and time on it, I decided to get a new scoot. So I'm going from the Tao Tao ATM 50 (mods listed in signature) to a TGB Bullet (mods listed in signature). I originally planned on getting a key west but then thought, mmm 13 inch wheels. Cause going 40mph on 10 inch wheels isn't always fun. So anyway, I spoke with the owner of the shop. He does all the work and has been doing it for a while. I told him I wanted something that was going to cruise easily at 45 and be extremely reliable. I wanted to go all out, or as far as you could go with a TGB and available parts. Shop guy said, "You're not going to the track on Sunday and rebuilding it Monday. The 70cc kit, removing the restriction spacer on the variator, and exhaust will be good." I asked about different weight sliders or rollers and he said that 7g should be good since I am in the 220 weight class. I probably should asked y'all before pulling the trigger but I have poor impulse control when buying transportation. Anyways, I'm chomping at the bit waiting to pick it up but everything has been delayed by all the bad weather. What are your thoughts? Thanks
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 6, 2019 8:11:36 GMT -5
I won't disagree with you there.
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Post by 190mech on Mar 6, 2019 8:24:31 GMT -5
A 2 stroke 70cc will beat most 150cc 4 strokes..TGB is a well made scoot,aftermarket stuff is limited though..
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Post by scootnewb on Mar 6, 2019 8:31:15 GMT -5
A 2 stroke 70cc will beat most 150cc 4 strokes..TGB is a well made scoot,aftermarket stuff is limited though.. Cool. True and finding instructional info about them is hard. Aside from a BBK, variator, pipe, clutch spring and rollers, I'm not sure what other aftermarket go fast parts I would want. Or is it the limited choices of those go fast parts that is the issue? Can you enlighten me? gsx600racer Are you not happy with your R50X?
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 6, 2019 9:21:04 GMT -5
If you want to see some comparisons, go check out the Scoot Speed List and look at what different sizes of 2Ts and 4Ts are posting.
Keep in mind that not all 70cc 2Ts are created equal. There's a huge difference between a street/sport 70cc and high-end racing 70cc. A sport build is mild, doesn't rev really high, and good for day to day use. On the other end of the spectrum are the racing builds that make lots of power at very high RPM and because of those things are hard on parts and not something you want to use to ride to work every day. A mild 70cc may only make 5-10HP, while a racing 70cc can make 20HP or more.
4Ts are kind of vanilla in comparison. No offense to their enthusiasts, but they just aren't as dynamic. If you buy a big bore kit alone for a 4T, you get a big cylinder and piston. For the most part, they're gonna work the same as long as they're decent quality. Then you have to add a different head and cam if you want to get more from it. A 2T cylinder is kind of all of that in one package, because the ports are in the cylinder. With what is on the market for the 4Ts, you can build something mild and great to ride or something with a little more power, but you aren't going to make some wheelie monster racer out of a 70-100cc 139QMB with the typical off the shelf BBKs, heads, cams, etc...
Plus the 2T pipes do amazing things. I'm not saying a 4T exhaust does nothing, but I don't think you'll swap a pipe onto your 4T and feel a big difference in power or speed unless the previous one was restricted. Then remember that the 2T fires on every revolution instead of every other.
All of that said, if all you want to do is cruise at 45MPH and be reliable... probably both the 80cc 4T and the 70cc 2T are kind of poor choices. A quality 150cc~ should last a long time if that's all you ask of it. Cost is way out there compared to a TaoTao with a BBK, but a Yamaha SMAX 155cc (just one example) would probably require nothing but routine maintenance for a long time. Just take care of it and ride it wherever you wanna go basically.
Back to what is probably more of the original inquiry, I think the 4T is a little under-powered for what I'd call a true 45MPH cruiser. You could do it, but it may not do well with headwinds and hills. A 70cc 2T would be more likely to maintain 45MPH more of the time. The 4T is gonna use less fuel and won't smoke/smell like the 2T though, and those things are important to some.
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Post by scootnewb on Mar 6, 2019 10:09:57 GMT -5
Thanks. I looked a bit at the speed list and saw a 50cc TGB was able to hit 54 and got excited. I wanted a larger 2t scoot but I couldn't find any used in my area. Same with finding a Zuma or similar Malossi based 2t. I kind of want / need the 50cc model because of the lax laws here. The shop I went to is the only one within 50 miles that sells 2t scooters and they only carry TGB. While writing this I got a call from the shop and found there has been another delay. The scooter would not arrive until next week and shop guy wanted to know what I wanted to do. I opted for a refund. I'm kind if disappointed and relieved. I think I should just get a CR 80 put street tires,Tao Tao stickers, and the tag on it and call it day. But for real, at least I have more time to look for used Zumas and explore other options.
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 6, 2019 19:45:38 GMT -5
scootnewbYeah. They are well built, heavier than most in the same class(50cc), go fast parts are hard to find/get, OEM parts are hard to source too.(think I covered this in your original post/question thread). Hope you enjoy yours tho. I would of gone Genuine(New) or Yamaha Zuma(used). Many more parts options.(faster too)
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Post by scootnewb on Mar 6, 2019 20:57:31 GMT -5
The local scooter shop flaked. It was supposed to be ready to go with the parts installed by Feb 26th, that turned into March 4th and today another run around that turned into 'sometime next week'. They didn't even have the scooter yet! I opted for a refund and was told "I'll cut you a check as soon as I get refunded from the distributor." I could barely contain myself. I just cancelled the charge on the credit card and was issued a refund immediately. So, the next closest dealer (one state over) just happens to sell Genuine. I saw 2 new craigslist ads for Zuma's they'd been souped up and were labeled as racing scooters. I'm not sure how reliable they'd be as daily local drivers. I remember you covered the limited parts and that you wouldn't have done it again but I wasn't sure if that meant you were unhappy with it overall or just wouldn't have done it again. After all the feedback I'm starting to think maybe a Grom Clone would be a better solution for me. Then I thought about looking for 125 or 150cc 2t scooters new but besides Vespa, I have no idea where to get one.
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Post by pinkscoot on Mar 6, 2019 21:09:54 GMT -5
Except for the old Vespa shifties you won't find a 150cc 2 stroke. There are the old Genuine Buck Tens that are 110cc. All are pricey and not easy to find without a lot of work. As Brent said a name brand 150 like Yamaha, Honda, Genuine, Kymco or Piaggio scoots is a good cruise 45-50mph all day scoot. I wish you luck in your search.
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Post by gsx600racer on Mar 6, 2019 21:19:36 GMT -5
I was both. LOL
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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 6, 2019 21:31:02 GMT -5
Another set of mods you might not have considered is final gearing. My 70cc 2t is limited to its rev limit at 40mph, i would need to stretch its legs with a mild upgearing to take advantage of the power it has available.
Its like throwing an avid cyclist on a bike stuck in low gear. He's strong, but he can only spin them wheels so fast. His power would be better used in higher gears for that top speed.
Another thought past stability, a larger rear wheel is very similar to upgearing too. All things equal, if you replaced your rear tire from a 90/90-10 to a 110/90-10, its about an 8% upgear. Imagine swapping to a 12-13 inch rear wheel...
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Post by scootnewb on Mar 7, 2019 3:29:04 GMT -5
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Post by scootnewb on Mar 7, 2019 8:47:28 GMT -5
Man, you won't believe this but... I got another Tao Tao. The Hellcat. Here is what happened. Shortly after I paid for the Bullet and parts with an Amex. Amex decided to place a limit on my 'pay over time' balance and I was already over that limit. So when I was credited for the Bullet and parts I was left with only $1100 of 'pay over time' wiggle room.
That left out any 2t scoots and I didn't see any decent $1000 scooters. So I thought the Hellcat can cruise at 45 with pipe and carb ad over time I can replace anything that breaks with with quality Grom parts. If the motor get sketchy I can always drop in a pit bike motor. They bolt right up - sorta.
Anyway, this should get me back and forth to make money and then I can (eventually) get something worth while.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 7, 2019 10:47:43 GMT -5
They look like fun little bikes. No experience with them, but I've had midbikes with the same style of engine. If they're anything like the old Lifan engines were, it should be a pretty good powerplant. I would think a 125cc manual should be OK without mods for 45MPH, unless the carb and exhaust are known to be restrictive on the Hellcat. Keep us updated.
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Post by jbjhillbilly on Mar 7, 2019 14:26:33 GMT -5
Nice thing about the Hellcat is that if the engine destroys itself, a new 125cc Lifan or Piranha engine is about $300 and swaps right in. $400 will buy you a 140cc that’ll get your attention.
All that said, (and I don’t know your price range) but if you’re still wanting a scooter, the Kymco Agility 125cc is a great bike. And if you find a Piaggio Typhoon 125 or Liberty 150, they are nice, quick bikes.
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