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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 15, 2019 20:07:36 GMT -5
The Tariffs will go into effect by 9/8/19 They raise the cost of 150cc scooters ,Golf Carts , LSV This Sucks because motorcycle sales are slow anyway . Expect a surcharge passed on from 75 bucks on scooters to 600 on golf carts etc !
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Post by christopher on Aug 15, 2019 21:16:31 GMT -5
Isn't that the job of a tarrif? To encourage you to buy products made in the US?
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Post by eclark5483 on Aug 16, 2019 0:41:10 GMT -5
That's what the pitch is when it comes to tariffs, but it is not the reality. We live in a global economy. The idea of "MADE IN AMERICA" sounds all patriotic and all, (more like Nationalism), but the reality is, when something says "MADE IN AMERICA" it more often then not, really means "ASSEMBLED IN AMERICA" from parts and good we trade with other countries. When tariffs are enacted on other countries, like say a 10% one for arguments sake. They are not actually the ones paying for it. What they do in turn, is raise their price, which, when it comes to us, causes the retailer to raise their price as well. Which in turn, affect you the consumer. Tariffs would work if their were equal footing, but there simply isn't because we lack raw resources. And for another thing, you can't circle jerk your money and make a profit. If you think of this on a simpler level, like say your own home, and lets say you have a wife and 2 kids and you each have $100. That $400 between all of you is used for different things. Like say, here mow the lawn, I'll give you a dollar, do the dishes, I'll give you 3, give me head I'll give you $5 (hehe), but anyways, imagine you are paying each other for different goods and services in the house, and none of you have a job producing extra income, and no outside income from doing services for others... like say, mow the neighbors lawn, he pays you $10. With what the neighbor paid you, you just increased the family's total income from $400 to $410. But with tariffs, that neighbor is only gonna pay you say $8 because he wants his mower gas money accounted for since you borrowed his mower to cut the grass in the first place.
It's a messed up deal and kind of hard to explain a macro concept into a micro setting, but one thing all economist agree on... a recession is coming if the insanity doesn't stop.
It has already affected my employer (Polaris/Indian Motorcycle). A nice chunk of the motorcycles we build, get sold to Europe, and of course there are also tariffs on steel and aluminum. So we get slammed 2 fold. We pay more for the steel we need to make your Chieftain, and then we get slammed in the ass again for simply trying to sell the bike we built to another country (Harley was also affected). The effect of this, and you can check out the earning report, is a loss of about $1.6 billion in assets (so far). Which translates to less money for R&D, less money for newer better equipment and upgrades, less profit sharing for the employees, less money for the investors. And of course, the less WE have coming in as income, the less we as consumers can use to buy shit to keep the economy going. Multiply this by the many many manufacturers and employees all over America who make different things, farmers who grow crops, etc, etc.. Who do you believe when someone says the economy is doing well, the economists, or someone who thinks they know everything and we should just trust them? Not mentioning names, politics aren't exactly welcome here and that's a good thing, it keeps everybody friends, but that is the reality of the tariffs.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 16, 2019 11:10:37 GMT -5
That's the definition :
"Tariffs also are meant to increase the price of imports or to punish foreign countries for committing unfair trade practices, like subsidizing their exporters and dumping their products at unfairly low prices. ... They also reduce competitive pressure on domestic competitors and can allow them to raise prices."
It reality when the model is a Golbal it takes more than one country to apply the proper sanctions and pressure for this to be effective in a sense you can't do it alone without a end game and expect it to work ! eclark5483 I was reading about Polaris and all the others who are in a no win situation because of the this .
Polaris purchased hammer head a few years ago because of the manufacturing plant they had in China from what i gather the Tariff will raise the cost of karts 600/700 bucks OMG That will kill the sales for Christmas hurting the industry that much more. When the market was hot i had on hand 24 to 32 units cause i was selling 16 to 20 a month . I had them on flooring that would have killed me probably put me out of business if this type of tariff would have been thrust on me then ! I can see some smaller dealers going away because of this just because they can't keep taking stock from manufactures like kaw,Yam etc . You basically can't refuse the bikes once you forecast what you need for the year so your stuck with them or lose you dealership no matter what they say !!
"MADE IN AMERICA" Should also include Mexico Canada etc when your sourcing parts from other country's for your product can you say that anymore? Or Assembled in America ?
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Post by tortoise2 on Aug 16, 2019 11:28:54 GMT -5
Should be some interesting discussions at the various powersports related trade shows. Piaggio is already diversified in Vietnam.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 16, 2019 11:45:32 GMT -5
Should be some interesting discussions at the various powersports related trade shows. Piaggio is already diversified in Vietnam. Really wow . India , Philippines are next lol This will be of major concern at shows i bet , if this lingers on into next year things will get serious i bet ...
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Post by eclark5483 on Aug 16, 2019 13:38:38 GMT -5
eclark5483 I was reading about Polaris and all the others who are in a no win situation because of the this . The nice thing about Polaris, that many of the other companies don't have as an option, is they own more then just Indian motorcycle and the Razr, snowmobiles, and what have you. They also own about 30 other companies, Like Bennington, which makes boats, TrailTech which I'm sure most everyone here is familiar with on their gauges and what have you, Timbersled, Aixam, Gem, Taylor-Dunn, Klim, I mean the list goes on and on. If we had to rely on motorcycles and snowmobiles, we'd be in a world of hurt. On the bright side though, motorcycle sales are up and expected to climb, the new FTR1200 is a huge success in Europe, and the new (uh, sorry can't talk about that). But yeah, we love building them bikes. Some of the bikes we used to build for Europe, are now being built in Poland. The company didn't have much choice because of what the tariffs are doing. Those are motorcycles that we would of loved to have built right here in America. Harley, as I had mentioned, also faced this conundrum but they got slammed by the current administration on twitter and other places. Not that I'm sticking up for the competition, but these are biker lovers jobs just like us Indian employees. Our rivalry has been a friendly one between competitors for over a hundred years and that's the way it should be. We shouldn't have to be competing to just hold onto our jobs.
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Post by fugaziiv on Aug 16, 2019 14:12:04 GMT -5
Not a fan for multiple reasons, but suffice to say that the tariffs will continue to depress Powersports, which is already a depressed industry.
Bottom line is that the trade war tariffs aren't designed to promote US consumers to buy US made goods. This is just spin. They're designed to dissuade US importers and manufacturing from using China (or other targeted countries), and do so at an actual financial cost to the American consumer. It's an important distinction.
Matt
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Post by aeroxbud on Aug 16, 2019 14:33:05 GMT -5
Should be some interesting discussions at the various powersports related trade shows. Piaggio is already diversified in Vietnam. Piaggio have also been building scooters in china for years!
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Post by jstich on Aug 16, 2019 18:01:15 GMT -5
And don't be an idiot; us consumers and importers are paying the tariffs, not China.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Aug 16, 2019 19:03:30 GMT -5
I hope someone with a cooler head prevails soon so we don't hit a major recession nothing like 06 but it could hurt ! lol We are online for one but how server is the question . It's not easy being in any business when you have no idea what your cost will be day to day because of a tweet . O man Jim Beam is considering raising prices next year because of Tariffs NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol STOP this madness lol
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Post by eclark5483 on Aug 17, 2019 0:55:27 GMT -5
I guess whom I really feel bad for out of all of this, is the farmers. If I were to guess as to the REAL reasoning, it would be to bankrupt these smaller guys so that one could snatch up their land/business at a low price. Again, don't want to be political, and I know for a fact many farmers support the current administration because that is how they were raised/indoctrinated, but these farmers are facing very tough times and could see there life long investment get snatched up by the big guys, which ultimately I think is Trump's (OK I SAID HIS NAME), master plan, this is how he has ALWAYS swindled people. I guess all I can say is move your 401k to the STABLE VALUE E fund unless you are a complete idiot who falls for his bullshit. A recession is coming folks. I know this site and Brent aren't too keen on political discussion, and you are of course, free to support this idiot if you must, but don't be stupid with your money. My wife lost over $20,000 in the last one of 2007'. Don't let your personal politics fuck you over. Believe the economists and not the asshole Demagogue.Heed the warning... or not. But never allow anybody to say.. "I TOLD YOU SO"
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Post by jackrides on Aug 17, 2019 19:08:27 GMT -5
Once the people lose their land, they Never get it back.
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Post by milly on Aug 17, 2019 19:33:43 GMT -5
Had a lot of farmland swallowed up by big companies in the 70's in the U.K. Luckily still a lot of smaller farms about. Some of the big company boy's wouldn't know a cows head from its arse till it shat on them.
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Post by streetsweeper on Aug 18, 2019 21:27:00 GMT -5
Meh, tariffs, smariffs...I've laid in enough of the major parts that I can rebuild if I have to. I tend to worry more about the idiots screaming "Green Energy", wanting to charge per mile tax on POV's now and climate change. The chinese are going to back down. In the meantime, I'm going to sit back, relax, sip a cold beer and watch for the next 150cc I get to smoke with my lil 50cc.
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