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Post by Elektrey on Jun 8, 2015 22:12:19 GMT -5
Hold up a second. I think I can use logic to figure this out! known: - One version of crankcase
- One version of crank
therefore: - pickup coil is in the same place for 4 and 8 stator designs
- the magnet, relative to the crank must pass over the pickup coil at the same time to have same ignition timing
Therefore magnet position relative to the slot in the flywheel must be the same! Any phase change of the exciter coil would lead to a phase change in the ignition timing, since the flywheel must mount on the crank with the same key! Does this make sense to anyone? Pic might help  EDIT: actually I think I am misunderstanding how the stator works. Correct me if I am wrong: the little magnet on the outside is for the pickup coil ONLY. on the inside of the stator are magnets for the stator coils. I counted 8 magnets one for each coil in mine. This means that the exciter coil is consistently being charged and there is no timing issue right? so no phase issues? It seems like the 4 pole stator is identical to the 8 pole, its just where two of the coils on the 8 pole are, it is replaced with one. So everytime the flywheel goes around the 4 pole stator, each coil will pass 8 magnets instead of 4, with the timing of the magnets in phase with the other flywheel, but twice as many magnets and each magnet will generate half (?) the charge? I am just learning this stuff so please correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like it would work! |
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Post by Jwhood on Jun 8, 2015 23:17:15 GMT -5
Yeah a 4 pole puts out less then the 8 if I'm not mistaken,I'm not sure if the bigger coils on the 4 pole makes the difference causing the 4 pole too do the same amount of work as the 8 pole would just with 4 poles gone,the pickup is not changing position so I think it should work,I'm also learning about the workings of the stator!!
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 8, 2015 23:38:22 GMT -5
Yeah a 4 pole puts out less then the 8 if I'm not mistaken,I'm not sure if the bigger coils on the 4 pole makes the difference causing the 4 pole too do the same amount of work as the 8 pole would just with 4 poles gone,the pickup is not changing position so I think it should work,I'm also learning about the workings of the stator!! Hurray for learning! Yes I think the 4 pole puts out lower power as a standard rule, but it also depends on magnet strength and the gauge of wire being coiled also has to do with it I think. If there exists R50x where they use this 4 pole I don't see why it wouldn't work. according to their manuals, both R50x and key west have 35W brights and running lights and 21W brake lights. The only difference between the two is the key west has an analog speed where the r50x has the digital. also r50x has the accessory thing. |
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Post by 190mech on Jun 9, 2015 5:30:39 GMT -5
Getting 83.6 OD on the 4 pole stator,will post pics tonight after I get off an after hour job.The magnet layout within the flywheel can alter the way the system works..
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Post by Jwhood on Jun 9, 2015 7:43:37 GMT -5
190 so how does the 4 pole work on italjet formula 50 they have exact same engine as the tgb,just curious if they engineered the 4 pole just like the 8 pole was setup? I have very little knowledge on how stators work cause all the tgb scooters I've messed with always functioned right!!!
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Post by 190mech on Jun 9, 2015 9:19:04 GMT -5
It may work just fine.I'll get some pics so y'all can compare the 4 and 8 stuff.Will send the 4 pole stuff if needed.. I got this piece of info when I was scratching my head on the KX85 iggy install; "Excesive advance may cause the capacitor charge will be not enought to make spark, and the engine will fail at high rpm (see image). In this case the only solution is to make the capacitor start to change before by moving the coils several degrees in the oposite way to the magnets motion." From this link; www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htmThe way I see it is the orientation of the exciter coil,pick up coil AND magnets contribute to how the iggy system works.. |
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 10:16:11 GMT -5
Ok, are they talking about an ignition advance in the CDI module itself?
Theoretically speaking it doesn't make sense. The exciter coil should pass all the magnets in the flywheel in each revolution of the engine right? Whatever the exciter coil misses in one revolution it adds to the next revolution?
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Post by 190mech on Jun 9, 2015 11:22:01 GMT -5
The exciter pulse is timed by the rotating magnet,if its out if sync with the trigger(pulse)coil,we have no or weak spark..Get it?
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 11:26:30 GMT -5
the exciter coil generates charge everytime it passes a magnet though right? so lets say it does it 8 times: 0 degrees<-------------------------------------------------------------------------->360 degrees <charge>-<charge>-<charge>-<charge>-<charge>-<charge>-<charge>-<charge> now thats one full revolution of the flywheel. place the trigger coil pulse anywhere in there, does it change the amount of charge the CDI has when it fires? I don't think so because its cyclical. Btw I've been reading where people use an 11 pole stator with an 8 pole flywheel over at GY6 150 engines and stuff. its an upgrade to the electrical system. www.jr-richscooterdoc.com/Help_11_coil_stator_install.pdfitistheride.boards.net/thread/5399/gy6-150-flywheel |
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 17:34:48 GMT -5
Is my logic correct?:
there's an outside magnet on the flywheel that triggers the pickup coil
and there's also magnets on the inside of the flywheel all around the inside that pass by the coils on the stator and give them charge.
btw I measured out like 83-84mm for my stator so it's probably the same size.
sorry I don't have any exact measurements I don't own a caliper so was just using a clear ruler.
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Post by 190mech on Jun 9, 2015 19:47:36 GMT -5
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 20:08:24 GMT -5
Interestingly enough that appears to be the same flywheel rotor, with the exception of the 4 magnets instead of 8. I assume thats what the bolts are for yes?
my flywheel is marked "507 94/11/16" instead of "94/01/16" but other than that has the same markings
stator is marked "94/11/16" in a slightly smaller font but other than that it appears to be the same mfr. but with 8 poles instead of 4.
thanks for posting that!
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Post by 190mech on Jun 9, 2015 20:27:22 GMT -5
Sorry for no text in the above post,photobucket had its little gremlins out tonight!
Yep,the flywheel is a 4 pole magnet..An 8 pole 'may' work if the magnet to trigger ramp to flywheel key are close..
The small drawing was copied from the sport devices link,note how the exciter coil has an increasing wave form,then is dumped when the trigger coil is pulsed,,if the trigger was early or late during the exciter wave form,weak or no spark will happen,,can you see it now??
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 20:50:09 GMT -5
ok I see that but are you saying that the inner magnets of the stator rotor are different strengths with the stronger magnets closer to the timinig of the ignition?
otherwise I think the charge to the CDI from exciter will be linearly increasing from the rotating magnets.
what do you mean magnet to trigger ramp to flywheel key?
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Post by Elektrey on Jun 9, 2015 21:02:27 GMT -5
Jwhood: from harry. part no's are actually for the cooling fan but you can find a more detailed parts manual here: www.astrogeneral.com/R50X_1014.pdf190mech do you know what TGB your 4 pole is out of? |
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