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Post by Clank on Jun 30, 2015 0:07:17 GMT -5
I had the notion of taking a power steering fluid cooler core and converting it to a scooter oil cooler. I was thinking the outlet from the drain plug side and the inlet on the oil filter/pump pickup side. Anyone know if the stock oil pump is sufficient enough to do this? I know I have to keep the lines as short as possible. If anyone has tried this or knows of a better more cost efficient way please share. 190mech, FrankenMech, Fox, 90GTVert, scooterpimp, hint hint. I know one of you has more than one great solution, and anyone else here. |
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Post by runningbuck on Jun 30, 2015 7:53:07 GMT -5
now I am no expert but it stands to reason that if you kept it low and their is no restriction to block the flow that the stock oil pump should be able to work fine as long as it's the short cooler and is free flowing but this is just my thoughts and usually everyone ignores them
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Post by 190mech on Jul 1, 2015 19:20:09 GMT -5
I'm kinda distant on the 4T side Clank,I did a quick Ebay search and found only 150cc stuff..Oil coolers in aviation are on the return side.Gotta be on the pressure side for a GY6..Where do you tap into the pressure side?Looking at the service manual I dont see an easy spot.If its on the pressure side you'll need to think about the cooler draining at shut down,thus cooler will need to be filled at startup before the rest of the engine gets any oil..Is oil temp a problem with this type?? Edit,The bigger bore kits kill the bearings,maybe oil temp IS a problem,OR the higher loaded bearings from the bigger bore is killing them..Typical OLD SCHOOL Honda 4T's had a rolling element bottom end,just like the GY6,oil pressure is verrry low as rollers only need a bit of oil compared to sleeve bearing motors that float on oil..Guess if it was my project,I'd do the turkey baker temp probe in the dipstick hole mod and monitor it,OR do the shotgun approach with the thickest high volume pump + oil cooler hung low(no drain back) and a bigger oil sump mod..  |
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Post by Clank on Jul 1, 2015 20:51:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the input. 190mech so you don't that running a an oil outlet from the oil drain plug to cooler back to bottom of the oil filter call which is also the oil pump pickup side isn't feasible? I'd planned on tapping both bolts and threading in a barbed hose nipple to run hose to and from the core. |
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Post by 190mech on Jul 1, 2015 21:16:04 GMT -5
OK, so we are picking oil out of the pan,going thru the cooler,to the suction(screen) side of the pump??Most all pumps push better than suck,so I'd think if the cooler isnt at the same level as the oil sump a restriction may cause oil transfer/pressure problems..UNLESS you are just allowing partial oil flow thru the cooler and keeping the rest of the system intact,Now that might work..The tranny cooler should work very well..If you do this mod,please get us a before and after oil sump temp reading.A stock pump shouldnt see the difference if its a 'partial flow' mod..  |
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Post by scooterpimp on Jul 2, 2015 5:53:23 GMT -5
I could see where a oil cooler would help in the desert heat , the added oil capacity would be a bonus.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 2, 2015 11:50:07 GMT -5
Is oil temp a problem with this type?? Essentially stock 49cc, upper 80 degree day :  |
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Post by 190mech on Jul 2, 2015 11:56:42 GMT -5
WOW!Thats too hot!!Clank,get that cooler mod out there and working so the rest of the world can run a "Clank Cooler"!! |
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Post by scooterpimp on Jul 2, 2015 19:27:45 GMT -5
Keep that oil cool with a Clank cooler! Almost sounds like an old advertising jingle |
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Post by Clank on Jul 3, 2015 0:00:55 GMT -5
So what exactly is "partially intact sump"? And yes flow going out oil drain to core back to oil filter/screen/oil pu side using 1/4" to 5/16" lines.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 3, 2015 4:48:25 GMT -5
Unless I'm missing something,the oil screen cap is there for removal of screen and spring for inspection and cleaning.Above the cap threads is a large hole in the side of the case where the oil pump draws oil from,up thru the screen to the pump,etc..If you tap into the cap,you'll still have the hole in the case where its always got its oil from.To get oil flow thru the cooler that case hole may need to be partly covered,,Thats where it'll get dicey as I said a pump pushes better than sucks,so too much restriction on the intake side will starve the pump..I tried to find a proper illustration of the screen pickup area,but had no luck finding one...
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Post by katastroff on Jul 3, 2015 5:29:13 GMT -5
Unless I'm missing something,the oil screen cap is there for removal of screen and spring for inspection and cleaning.Above the cap threads is a large hole in the side of the case where the oil pump draws oil from,up thru the screen to the pump,etc..If you tap into the cap,you'll still have the hole in the case where its always got its oil from.To get oil flow thru the cooler that case hole may need to be partly covered,,Thats where it'll get dicey as I said a pump pushes better than sucks,so too much restriction on the intake side will starve the pump..I tried to find a proper illustration of the screen pickup area,but had no luck finding one... Some nice pictures here: www.partsforscooters.com/151-231_Crankcase_left_type2But if the inside of a 150cc is the same as a 50cc i can take some and post them, my crankcase is currently open. |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 3, 2015 7:02:16 GMT -5
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Post by 190mech on Jul 4, 2015 19:48:55 GMT -5
Ive been looking at this design flaw(fault),,150cc seems waay easier than a 50,,They offer the 150 stuff,but zero 50cc..If a thin wall aluminum tube was installed in the ID of the oil screen cap,and the length was adjusted so the cast in intake was restricted an "X" amount,the cooler port in the cap would surely create flow..I feel the lines should be as big as possible to reduce restrictions..If the tube was setup to say 1mm clearence,then the oil intake flow would use the oil cooler inlet and the 1mm gap,,May trash an engine testing it,the more inputs,the better(oil pressure,oil temp)..The Youtube vids show an electric pump moving the oil thru the cooler,bad idea in my eyes,how long can that hold up to 250F??Getting a cooler on the pressure side looks difficult as the output splits to the crank bearings and top end which is a long slotted casting in the front of the case..Hope somebody can shed some light here,,it'll be an important step to get these little motors running longer with properly cooled oil..
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Post by Clank on Jul 5, 2015 3:01:07 GMT -5
Ok I'm gonna research the links katastroff and 90GTVert shared. 190mech you say push not pull. I've got a motor that wouldn't hurt my feelings if it blew. Tried to blow it before with troll s spark plug. The joys of R&D. |
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