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Post by 'O'Verse on Apr 30, 2016 17:18:29 GMT -5
I made the same type of scoop you did the last go around. Using the 4" 90 degree plumbing elbow. Went back and talked to the plumber that gave me the first elbow to use.. And his first question was what we used to bond the two plastics together. I told him that you used your plastic weld amongst other agents and that I used jb weld for mine. Anyway he said because both pieces were probably made out of abs plastic. The elbow and our original fan cover to use abs glue next time. He mentioned it would cure harder cause it was made for binding the plastic.
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Post by niz76 on Apr 30, 2016 19:44:07 GMT -5
I rode to a friend's house today and when I came back the scoop for the fan shrouds had arrived.  I'm not a big fan of cheap chrome, so I scuffed it up and painted it flat black before installing it. The holes didn't line up with my shroud well at all. Once installed, it didn't fit well. There are gaps all around it's edges. There were two ways I could install it to have it sort of facing the front to act like a scoop. I chose to leave it most open on the top side, thinking maybe it would draw less air from near the exhaust.    I also noted that the inlet diameter is 3 5/8" with a big central bar through it. My shrouds are 4 3/16". So I've got a scoop with a smaller inlet and big gaps in it that I think would prevent it from taking full advantage of any air it scoops up. Didn't seem like a winning recipe to me, but I might as well give it a shot. I was happy because it's not a great day at 50F and cloudy, but the temp has only changed 2 degrees since 9AM, the wind has stayed about the same, it's still full cloud cover, etc... Conditions are great for being fair to try something like this. I took it for a ride similar to what I did earlier, which was a 50MPH road so it had to be WOT to keep up. By the time I was nearly as far as I was earlier in the day WOT, I let out of it because it was getting hotter than I wanted, above 440F. On the earlier ride, I never even noticed it above 421F, so I assume it hit 433 only briefly. This was staying there and willing to climb higher. I actually got back on it on another stretch and it did go higher, to over 450F. Here are two shots of the Vapor's max temp recording. The first is from the morning ride without the scoop and the second is from the ride with the scoop.   Even when I let out of it, it didn't cool like it normally does. Usually if I back out just a little bit, the temp will go down to 400F or less. I had to drop into the mid 40s to get it to cruise from 390-410F. Once again, nothing works for me like it does for anyone else on the internet. There are plenty of people saying these things work and their engines no longer overheat or feel better or they don't think they're as hot and so on. Mine did totally the opposite and made it run hotter... kind of like you'd expect by limiting the inlet diameter and having a leaky path to the shroud really. Maybe I just got a junker and the others fit great? Maybe most people don't monitor temps closely and want them to work? In defense of scoops, I have built them for my 2Ts and documented that they work. Those were as large or larger than the inlet and sealed to the shroud and a bit larger. They did make the engine run hotter by a little bit at idle, but when I was WOT or moving at all and more concerned with temps, they did cool the engine slightly better. Needless to say, as soon as my gear came off, the scoop was removed. I think it goes to show that your engineering instincts and skills are spot on- better than bolt on parts! Unfortunately, it sucks that you have to take the time and make everything yourself to get it right and can't enjoy a cheap bolt on that works as advertised. |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 2, 2016 19:21:54 GMT -5
I wanted to see if increasing timing even more than the few degrees already advanced would get me anywhere. I bolted a printed degree wheel onto the flywheel so I could mark it to allow me to advance it 6-8 degrees. I say 6-8 degrees because I find it difficult to be very precise with this little wheel and this method, but the reality is that I really don't know exactly what timing I need anyway, and that seemed like a good start since 190mech has mentioned a max of 35-36 degrees of advance and I believe I'm right around 28 now.  I actually marked it wrong the first time, and thought, "how convenient; the vertical bit of the T is right where I need a mark". Then I installed it and realized I got it bass ackwards and had retarded the flywheel relative to the crank. Then I did it the proper way.   I figured I might as well lap the flywheel and crank while I was at it, to be more certain that nothing would move without the woodruff key in place. I never looked up lapping. All I really knew about it was that I was to use valve lapping compound. I just put some compound on both parts and put pressure on the flywheel as I spun it around and back and forth by hand. I couldn't imagine what else it would entail. That must be how it's done, because holy crap that flywheel was on there when I installed it wrong the first time and then had to take it off. I had to put so much pressure on the puller that once it was off I ended up having to hold the flywheel with an oil filter wrench so I could get the puller out of it with a wrench. That's a surprisingly effective technique.  Then, the moment of truth; the road test. Maybe I would finally find the speed and power that I've been wanting. It did feel like it was a bit more snappy at low revs heading to the end of the driveway. I went WOT to the road that I did other tests on and noted the same speed before having to brake as before. Damn, no big gains there. I rode WOT and it was doing the same speeds as before. The only thing that I could tell via butt dyno was that it felt more responsive if I let of and got back into the throttle, but other than the initial response, I couldn't tell a difference in performance. What I could tell a difference in was temperature. It got HOT. I realized it was running hotter, and headed back home. I got on a 50MPH road and the temp kept climbing. It made it into the 470 range before I turned onto a side road and did 40MPH or so to cool it down. It still ran pretty hot, around 400 or over just being easy on it. Don't be fooled by the speed on the pic below. I tucked down with a bit of a tail wind just before my house, and that's also when it got to 482F. I think it would keep rising too.  That's not gonna work.  Probably should have figured, since there seem to be a lot of people talking about overheating GY6s that aren't even bothering to try and up compression as I have or advance timing 8-11 degrees total. Oh, and I never noticed any spark knock. |
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Post by niz76 on May 2, 2016 23:10:19 GMT -5
I never looked up lapping. All I really knew about it was that I was to use valve lapping compound. I just put some compound on both parts and put pressure on the flywheel as I spun it around and back and forth by hand. I couldn't imagine what else it would entail. Yep- that's pretty much all it entails! Haha. Wow I'm surprised at how hot this engine can get without soft seizing. It must be the 4t oil pumping around that protects it so well? So folks soft-seizing 4t's must be getting them Really hot!? |
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Post by 190mech on May 3, 2016 5:32:36 GMT -5
Guess the cooling system cant handle the added load from the mods..In the aviation world the AC piston engines are 'fuel cooled' and are run rich of peak CHT/EGT to keep them cool.We also have the concept of running 'lean of peak'(LOP) where the mixture is set so the engine cant produce excessive heat due to a lean setting,its always at a cruise of 65-75% throttle.Perhaps the stock engine is set up this way for economy,and emissions..If so the cooling system load can be reduced due to the lean setup..Then we hotrodders add power which adds heat,,and so on...
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Post by 90GTVert on May 3, 2016 7:05:17 GMT -5
If I had any power to spare, I'd run it a little rich, but with it just getting by as good enough to take on 50MPH roads, I have no headroom. I ordered an 842 belt and a DrPulley variator the other day. I was gonna try it sooner or later anyway, so I just went for it. Anything that would let me back out of the throttle even a little to stay just over 50MPH would help. I'll still prob try to build a scoop at some point. I don't see how the big strokers don't die, but I guess they have power to spare so a rich mix could be used and then some of them use oil coolers and they don't need to be WOT all of the time.
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Post by cwazywazy on May 3, 2016 9:04:36 GMT -5
A $90 Scrappydog oil cooler would probably help. Maybe a liquid cooled build or something?
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Post by ryan_ott on May 3, 2016 11:51:26 GMT -5
Does yours have provisions to tap for a oil cooler? I had a RX200hp years ago that can from the factory with a oil cooler here is a pic where it was mounted. I have some more if needed. I have a selection of oil coolers I could give you if you wanted to set one up.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 3, 2016 12:16:47 GMT -5
No built in oil cooler connections on mine.
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Post by cwazywazy on May 3, 2016 12:36:07 GMT -5
Can the 150 just take an adapted plug thingy like mine does? Goes in place of the screen plug and lets the oil pump push oil down one line or something.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 3, 2016 16:31:31 GMT -5
The 150 should be able to use the same connections as the 50 if it involves drain plugs. TBH I really haven't looked into oil coolers much, but it looks like I should be.
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Post by 190mech on May 3, 2016 17:48:18 GMT -5
Good call cwazywazy!I was gonna suggest an oil cooled mod,,The early Susuki GSXR sport bikes used air/oil cooling with good results,they were scary fast too!I think the 150's have a better selection of oil coolers than the 50's from my research a while back..More $$$ down the drain!!!
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Post by Fox on May 4, 2016 0:14:30 GMT -5
Maybe it's time for a re-evaluation of the entire thought process here. We look at the $$$ put into it, and then put it on craigslist with all the bitchin" mods listed with awesome pictures to make it look great for a few hundred more than the total and see if you can break even selling it to a person with zero knowledge and then you wipe your hands clean of it like a Vegas dealer changing shifts. Cha-ching! You can even remove a few things first. There's a sucker born every minute... Call me callous, call me an asshole! I don't care, I have been the sucker before. Just tune it so it's not running too hot and sell that shit. More money for 2T tuning which is where your heart is anyway Brent.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 4, 2016 12:06:55 GMT -5
Maybe it's time for a re-evaluation of the entire thought process here. We look at the $$$ put into it, and then put it on craigslist with all the bitchin" mods listed with awesome pictures to make it look great for a few hundred more than the total and see if you can break even selling it to a person with zero knowledge and then you wipe your hands clean of it like a Vegas dealer changing shifts. Cha-ching! You can even remove a few things first. There's a sucker born every minute... Call me callous, call me an asshole! I don't care, I have been the sucker before. Just tune it so it's not running too hot and sell that shit. That makes way too much sense for me to do it.  More money for 2T tuning which is where your heart is anyway Brent. I do enjoy my 2Ts... but, truth be told, I enjoy auto/moto engines in general and learning about them and generally do it the hard way. I have no serious gripes about 4Ts. A lot of the stuff I say is banter. No, they don't usually match up to 2Ts of similar or larger displacement, but they can be fine riders and they can be interesting to fiddle with. Even at this point, I don't think I could break even on it. I've never owned a vehicle that I broke even on. As I've told friends at times, to some degree I see it as paying for a sort of DIY education, with the help of others here along the way of course. Sooner or later I usually end up with something I really enjoy riding, because it does what I want/need and hopefully reliably. The 150 may not work out that well. It feels like it's stuck in the middle of being a moped class scooter like a 50cc or a capable motorcycle class scooter like a 250+. |
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Post by Fox on May 4, 2016 18:28:50 GMT -5
You need to get a 400cc+ WC bad-ass scooter like a Yamaha Majesty 400 or a Suzuki Burgman 650 to get your rocks off, metaphorically speaking. There's no shame in going big and Japanese. I would have a big scoot right now if I had the money. Yamaha:  Suziki Burgman:  |
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Probably should have figured, since there seem to be a lot of people talking about overheating GY6s that aren't even bothering to try and up compression as I have or advance timing 8-11 degrees total.
