theo547
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 497
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Post by theo547 on Jun 5, 2011 10:13:09 GMT -5
OK so ive been beating my head on a wall getting my scooter running after a 70cc bore kit. Now #1 has been somewhat of an ongoing problem that ive known about, but until recently wasnt causing trouble. #'s 2 and 3 started happening yesterday during\after a ride. 1. There is a short in my main main wiring harness - im going to figure this out alittle today, but im mentioning it because it may relate to the other problems im having. 2. When driving faster then 5mph seems like steering wheel is locked or something.. will not turn more then a few degrees. when stationary or low speeds has no problem moving. 3. No spark! This is really pissing me off! ive tried 2 coils, 2 plugs then i pulled the plug out and looked at it well i tried starting it... nothing! tried to see if there was any power going to the coil, but neither lit up with my test light. - Other then this all other power is working.  Ok now yesterday I was on a ride going about 53ish - trying to push the new bore kit a little. and all power went out and the engine shut off. had to kick start it to get it going again, but it started right up. but now my fork wouldnt turn after about 5mph... basicly locked straight. brought it home took the fork apart, and greased the bearings up (which was a total pain in the ass). decided to take it for a ride and see if that fixed my problems... and no it didnt... made it down the street and the engine died on me... walked it home... tried starting it at home and nothing. figured i flooded the engine so i let it sit for a few hours and tried again... nothing... and again this morning. Here are some pics:  IMAG0263 by theo547, on Flickr my lock cylinder without the key turned.  IMAG0264 by theo547, on Flickr cylinder with the turned key  IMAG0265 by theo547, on Flickr one of the coils ive tried... assuming the white\black wire is positive, but ive tried it both ways.  IMAG0262 by theo547, on Flickr pos terminal i will be fixing shortly.  IMAG0259 by theo547, on Flickr bottom of my fork  IMAG0258 by theo547, on Flickr top of my fork  IMAG0257 by theo547, on Flickr another of the top of the fork.  IMAG0266 by theo547, on Flickr one of my plugs    |
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 5, 2011 10:26:27 GMT -5
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Post by shakerdriver on Jun 5, 2011 10:38:37 GMT -5
It doesn't look like the steering lock is disengaging with the key on. As for the no spark it could be the ignition. if the cylinder lock isn't disengaging as stated above it could be that the rest of the ignition isn't working properly either, or it could be the cdi. As far as the wires on the coil, from my own experiences it shouldn't matter which wire goes on which pole. And not trying to say your incompetent or anything but did you check the fuse by the battery? Just a few things that come to my mind to start out with and that pic of the lock cylinder sure looks like the locks not disengaging. Good luck with it and let us know if we can be of any other help.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 5, 2011 10:45:57 GMT -5
I didn't evenpay much attention to those pics at first. Shaker is right. That rod extends out and locks into the steering stem to prevent it from turning. It should only be extended with the key off and usually you have to turn the key farther left than off to engage it. If that's not disengaging, that will definitely stop you from turning. That's it's job (for anti-theft).
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theo547
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 497
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Post by theo547 on Jun 5, 2011 12:32:27 GMT -5
Ok Updates - Removed Anti-Theft rod... dont need it tell i get this figured out and someone steals the bike from me (with my luck this will be happening) Found this!  IMAG0267 by theo547, on Flickr POS i had checked it a few times but never actually taken it out... looky looky... one problem solved - Thanks Shaker... doesnt matter who you are everyone misses the simple stuff from time to time. Still no spark from the plug... tried 2 plugs.. nothing... no power is making it to the coil. is there a wiring diagram or something i can peak at for this? i have a sinking feeling its the Stator... and having no flywheel poller that pretty much sucks. my question would be that the Stator acts as a Alternator correct? it recharges the battery... so if i have battery power.. that shouldnt be related to my lack of spark at the plug. |
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Post by shakerdriver on Jun 5, 2011 12:57:46 GMT -5
Yeah the stator does act an alternator so to speak but the pickup is right there with it. It should be either a blue wire or a blue wire with a white stripe that sits right there above the flywheel. It reads off the magnet on the flywheel as it goes by and sends a signal to the cdi which then sends a signal to the coil.
Does it have a kill switch that may have shorted out? If you've got a kill switch unplug the wires from it and see what happens for a spark then.
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Post by shakerdriver on Jun 5, 2011 13:03:36 GMT -5
And as far the wires on the coil, ones a ground and the other is the pos wire from the cdi. If you've got a test light put the clip on the pos side of the battery and check the wires to see which one is the ground, you may have to turn the engine over while conducting this test. The ground goes on the green pole of the coil.
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theo547
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 497
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Post by theo547 on Jun 5, 2011 13:17:00 GMT -5
Yea it does have the kill switch. Matrix is basically a vento, triton clone
I will check it out later.
Good idea with test light!
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 5, 2011 14:10:23 GMT -5
Just because it charges, you can't rule out the stator. I believe you should have .5VAC or better on the blue/white trigger wire. Check the air gap on the reluctor (more info in the link I posted above).
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Post by marshinman on Jun 5, 2011 17:22:48 GMT -5
Have you check the output of the CDI?
You will have to use a analog volt meter and set it to AC volts and use the highest scale.
You should see the needle on the meter swing over if the CDI is putting out any voltage.
The CDI works like that of a amplifier to a old style record player.
The needle of the record player would be like that of the pickup coil and it sends a small signal to the CDI (Amplifier).
The CDI then boosts the signal enough that the coil can then generate AC High Voltage around 40,000 to 50,000 volts.
If you have one of those AC outlet testers (Has a light inside it) you can use it to test your coil to see if you are generating enough to get a spark.
Look at the steering this way, at least now you know your bearings and steering column are well lubricated and you shouldnt have to do this again for awhile.
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Post by Goosey on Jun 5, 2011 20:36:04 GMT -5
That's right. Symptoms of bad stator can also be intermitent stalling, seems like a fuel issue when it happens, and also
starting when cold, not starting again after warmed up, no spark. Eventually just no spark or starting at all. :zap:
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theo547
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 497
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Post by theo547 on Jun 5, 2011 23:11:13 GMT -5
kinda confused right now. ive been thinking that ive been getting no spark because my test light didnt light up off the coil's positive wire, but i just tried the spark plug on metal trick and i got spark - maybe i had a bad connection, but i tested it on the a known active power line first then tried the coil....
Maybe it is as i feared and it is the stator and it just wasnt working when i was using the test light....
For such simple machines these scooters are total pains in the butt!
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Post by marshinman on Jun 6, 2011 5:12:05 GMT -5
When you say the test light did not show up on the coils positive wire do you mean the input side of the coil coming from the CDI or do you mean the high voltage side where you attach the spark plug.
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theo547
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 497
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Post by theo547 on Jun 6, 2011 8:22:13 GMT -5
Lol wire from cdi. I don't like melting tools/!
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Post by marshinman on Jun 6, 2011 10:29:00 GMT -5
The voltage that comes from the CDI is not enough to light up a test light so you need to use a analog test meter (NOT DIGITAL) set on AC at the highest scale.
Use your 12v test light on the ignition coil (were the spark plug connects). It will not harm the light and you will have to look closely as it will only flash for a brief second.
Testing the CDI output is only going to tell if the CDI is producing voltage. The current comes from the coil.
I have also seen CDI units that when they are cool will produce voltage but one they get hot they stop. This is due a bad transistors in them when they get hot they they stop making connection.
If they didnt seal them in silicon you could repair one when it goes bad. Dont try and take a CDI apart as you will most likely destroy it and then have to buy a new one for sure.
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