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Post by 90GTVert on May 26, 2020 23:32:54 GMT -5
I think I'm just gonna forget the fender for now. Don't really want $50+ into it and both fenders that I've liked to some degree are for the wrong size wheels. Maybe later.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 5, 2020 6:12:07 GMT -5
SSR Part 6 is up. This one is different from the rest. I was asked to do an engine removal how-to so that's what this is. youtu.be/9n4U0EjnTvQ
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 29, 2020 13:52:46 GMT -5
SSR Part 7 : youtu.be/yrGM7sdpYgIRear tire, bearings, seals, relocating electrical items, motor mount mods and beefier chain.
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Post by Kenho21 on Jun 30, 2020 11:23:41 GMT -5
Great video! Next video should be a startup and first ride?
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Post by aeroxbud on Jun 30, 2020 12:13:46 GMT -5
The mounting points for the engines a setback. I guess they are quite loose tolerance with the holes. When you look at the original mount. I really liked the beefed up mounts you made. It will probably need them with the increase in torque.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jun 30, 2020 12:40:27 GMT -5
Great video! Next video should be a startup and first ride? Sure. lol I've gotta figure out the rear brake. That's been the part that worries me the most of the whole build. Hoping to do a foot brake instead of some dual hand lever setup with clutch and rear brake. That also means I'll have to figure out where my feet (pegs) are going to end up. Not sure what I'm doing for a wiring harness. Modifying or from scratch. I've never done a through the frame harness, but it kinda seems like it has to be from scratch if I route anything through the frame combined with relocating a bunch of stuff. Wiring is always a fun job that takes hardly any time or patience at all. I have an oil cooler to put somewhere. I have no idea if the carb and intake that I have will fit. The gas tank needs to be filled, sanded and painted. The frame will need some welds finished, stuff cut off, maybe holes for wires, and painting. Exhaust is probably going to be an issue. IF a pit bike style exhaust fits, it's probably a calf roaster. I've already got scars on my calf from my old midbike exhausts. Heat shields work, but re-routing more like the stock pipe from this moped is the most pleasant option for the rider IMO. Anything that fits better would likely have to be totally or at least a great portion custom made. There are always bunches of odds and ends too. Plus, I haven't got it insured or registered yet. Insurance at least should be easy... but not for me. I have 3 scooters on a policy. My ins co won't let me add another. I have to take one off. I asked if that's their policy or a legal issue and they said their policy is to only allow 4 scooters/motorcycles at any time. I have 3 insured and am trying to add the 4th. I gave up and decided I'll deal with it when I have to. Not sure if they'll suddenly learn to count or if I'll be trying to find a new ins co when it's road ready. Short and to the point : It's gonna be a bit.
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Post by Kenho21 on Jun 30, 2020 12:57:06 GMT -5
Great video! Next video should be a startup and first ride? Sure. lol I've gotta figure out the rear brake. That's been the part that worries me the most of the whole build. Hoping to do a foot brake instead of some dual hand lever setup with clutch and rear brake. That also means I'll have to figure out where my feet (pegs) are going to end up. Not sure what I'm doing for a wiring harness. Modifying or from scratch. I've never done a through the frame harness, but it kinda seems like it has to be from scratch if I route anything through the frame combined with relocating a bunch of stuff. Wiring is always a fun job that takes hardly any time or patience at all. I have an oil cooler to put somewhere. I have no idea if the carb and intake that I have will fit. The gas tank needs to be filled, sanded and painted. The frame will need some welds finished, stuff cut off, maybe holes for wires, and painting. Exhaust is probably going to be an issue. IF a pit bike style exhaust fits, it's probably a calf roaster. I've already got scars on my calf from my old midbike exhausts. Heat shields work, but re-routing more like the stock pipe from this moped is the most pleasant option for the rider IMO. Anything that fits better would likely have to be totally or at least a great portion custom made. There are always bunches of odds and ends too. Plus, I haven't got it insured or registered yet. Insurance at least should be easy... but not for me. I have 3 scooters on a policy. My ins co won't let me add another. I have to take one off. I asked if that's their policy or a legal issue and they said their policy is to only allow 4 scooters/motorcycles at any time. I have 3 insured and am trying to add the 4th. I gave up and decided I'll deal with it when I have to. Not sure if they'll suddenly learn to count or if I'll be trying to find a new ins co when it's road ready. Short and to the point : It's gonna be a bit. Maybe I was a bit overzealous...
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 17, 2020 15:15:22 GMT -5
I'll probably end up needing to build an exhaust for this thing at some point. As stated above, exhausts are basically either stock for this moped or you see if a pit bike pipe fits and that prob burns your leg if it does. Not yet, because I'll need to have pegs and a brake in place. I'm trying to figure out roughly what I'm doing though.
I've got a whole book about 4T exhausts, called Performance Exhaust Systems. There's some other stuff in other books that I have. I also have Four-Stroke Performance Tuning by A.G. Bell who many of us know from that book's Two-Stroke counterpart. I find any of the information that I have in there to be of little help. They talk a lot of about primary pipe function, but it is all tailored to multi-cylinder designs where they focus on things like 4 into 1 headers or 4 into 2 into one headers primarily.
I tried to do some calculations based on some equations in those books or another that I found based on HP (14.3 WHP on a stock Piranha 160-R engine with a 28mm carb as seen in a dyno video). I'm not convinced about those. They range from roughly 5/8" to 3/4" ID or 16-19mm for primary pipe ID. Sounds kinda small to me for a 160cc. They may be what is needed to keep exhaust gas velocity somewhere between 200-300ft/s though. It's all so tailored to headers and collectors, so I don't know how well it applies.
I looked on T-BoltUSA in their tech area. They say that basically if you have a pipe with a 28mm ID (a little shy of 1 1/8") then you have a performance pipe of sorts. I also see that a lot of mufflers sold for these are for 28mm and up. This is comparatively huge from calculated numbers out of books about mostly 4-8 cylinder engines.
It sounds like the pit bike exhausts commonly don't change size till they dump into the muffler. Some appear to have steps. There is info on stepped headers, but a lot of that seems kinda iffy here too. My best guess would be to use the primary tuned length as the entire length of the pipe from flange to muffler, and have a muffler with a large enough ID that it ends the tuned length. Still, who knows what the primary ID should be based on the aforementioned bits?
My understanding of 4T exhaust tuning has always been that it's not going to add much peak power. Trying to read up again on this hasn't really changed that. At one point Bell says that essentially you're going to move power around a little without changing peak output with exhaust tuning. Basically trying to widen the curve around peak power a bit, either above or below. It's best to try to create more power below the curve for street stuff, and racing applications may want to sort of extend the power up a bit more above peak. It seems like if you could actually get it tuned well enough, then you should be able to use the scavenging effect to make a little more than peak though, by my logic.
Bell later says to save you a lot of money and frustration that the average street engine without much valve overlap period could see about a 3% difference in an "in tune" and "out of tune" exhaust. Engines with a longer period of valve overlap (beyond about 65 degrees @ 0.050" lift according to Bell) could see a 10% difference in output with a header that has a slightly out of tune tuned length. 10% of 14WHP (1.4HP) is significant to me. 3% (.4HP)... I'd like to have it, but I don't know that it's worth a lot of time and effort. Even more so since it seems to be widely accepted that all of these calculations are a baseline guess. Real exhaust tuning should happen on a dyno, and that ain't gonna happen in this case.
I looked briefly online for single cylinder exhaust stuff, but didn't get far before growing tired of it.
At this point, part of me thinks I should just get some 1" or larger ID pipe and bends to use when it's time and make the exhaust however it works out to fit. Part of me thinks I should try to measure my cam specs (overlap) and see if there's much likelihood that it could net any significant gain on the big IF that I guessed at it right since equations for the same purpose don't even come out to the same conclusions.
I know there's also the old school method for pipe length of spray painting a pipe and running the engine to see how far the paint is burned off and then cutting it accordingly. Don't know that I really care to do that either.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 17, 2020 17:31:36 GMT -5
4poke exhausts dont respond nearly as well as a 2stroke,,The bucket racer guys at Kiwibiker were fabbing up slow tapering head pipes dumping into a big bore muffler with good results..They are waay easy to build compared to a 2stroke expansion chamber!!Have at it..
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Post by Lucass2T on Aug 18, 2020 2:23:24 GMT -5
450cc 4t mx stuff all have some sort of resonator chambers in their exhaust design. Dunno what the use is, probably sound. But it might have some performance advantage. Maybe also take a look at the Moto 3 class (former 125cc 2t road race) exhaust designs.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 18, 2020 4:21:23 GMT -5
Found the post on KiwiBiker,this is for a FXR150; Easy and cheap way to make a tapered header is to buy a wide U bend from auto bend. It should be the biggest size so you can then cut a small wedge down the length. Then all you do close it up in the vice and weld it up. Some hammer action will also be necessary. You want all the taper change to happen in the first 200mm of the pipe then straight from there. Also you want the inside of the pipe to match up nice with inside top of the port but a 3 mm step down at the bottom of the port (bigger at the bottom). The exhaust port is a D shape and quite good so don't go messing with it. He also talks about length here; He is trying to be funny. 450 form the valve to the big open muffler. Then play with bellmouth length till it goes really good. Not many engines are the same due to cam timing, exhaust diameter intake port size blah blah. I would go with 450mm form the valve to muffler. That should give you peak power at 12k ish. The happy place for all FXR engines. I can't remember the pipe diameter I used. It was quite big. Can find out tomorrow. Here is the thread; www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/180372-Tapered-FXR-header-Ideas
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 18, 2020 9:08:07 GMT -5
Thanks John. That could be doable. Bell talks about creating a step at the port if the calculated diameter is smaller than the port and says he likes to try both the top and the bottom of the port for the mismatch because one is likely to perform better depending on port flow characteristics. Right before that, he says the header should be thought of as an extension of the port and closely matched. Porting and exhaust stuff that I've read over the years seemed to talk about a step at the flange as an anti-reversion tactic. Now it sounds like matching and using an anti-reversion device is the more popular way. I guess the tapered header would act as that. That may also be what they put in place in the 450s that Lucass2T mentioned. Could also actually be a resonator to sell more bikes with just the right exhaust note. I guess the easy way for me would be to try to match the header to the port and then taper it, unless the port is huge. Haven't measured. I have a feeling I'll be wrong regardless. The peak HP on these, according to that dyno vid, is 4400-5400RPM and peak torque is 3500-4500. They're not very high revving engines and only put out what I guess would be 15-16BHP. Doesn't seem like they should really need 1 1/8" pipe as a performance exhaust, but 5/8" seems pretty small. It also seems like these things could use a cam to make more HP with it currently so low and making 17TQ vs 14HP. With the talk of reliability of these large pit bike engines, it may be that spinning them up faster and stressing them more is a really bad idea.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 19, 2020 17:17:58 GMT -5
I finally crossed off one thing that I wasn't looking forward to and just finished up building a foot peg setup and making my own foot brake lever system from scratch so I can have standard motorcycle controls. It was a lot of work for something that probably looks simple at a glance. youtu.be/22OfvFMbEGU
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Post by aeroxbud on Sept 20, 2020 14:36:32 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this episode. So much fabrication. It's a shame when it's finished it will look like stock. And people won't realise the effort that went into building it. I think you missed a trick with the rear brake. You could of made a thumb operated one. Like in MotoGP. Sitting under the handle bars. 😉 But seriously I wish you had posted what you were doing with it. I have a new spring operated rear brake switch from a Peugeot. It would of been ideal. If you want it I will post a picture.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 20, 2020 15:20:53 GMT -5
But seriously I wish you had posted what you were doing with it. I have a new spring operated rear brake switch from a Peugeot. It would of been ideal. If you want it I will post a picture. Thanks. Hopefully this will hold up for a bit. The angle is a bit off. I should have prob angled the switch to go with the lever's path. Sometimes stuff is more clear watching the video than I saw it live.
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