PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Aug 26, 2018 10:08:57 GMT -5
Not yet. It still does it the same way even after all of the changes/swaps I have done. The backfiring/popping is gone as I replaced a slightly blown exhaust header gasket so that evidently was not related to this current issue. The only thing left that it could possibly be is something down inside the fuel tank that get sucked to that internal screen under high fuel conditions and then the carb. bowl runs dry and it shuts down/bogs. I back off on the throttle for a few seconds...the bowl fills back up, the engine races up to highest rpm again and it repeats. I have been running sea foam in my tank for the past 3 years at 1 oz/gal. and even though I changed the inline fuel filter, it looked pretty clear. Maybe on my last fill-up I picked up some debris? The fuel I drained out into a clear container looking for contamination looked clear and clean...that was one of the first things I did. Today, I am draining the entire tank and pulling the hose barb out of the tank to check the screen like someone suggested to me on here about a month ago now. I rode it to the store last weekend and it ran fine as long as I did not run W.O.T. for more than about 10 seconds or so. The fact that I can keep the throttle wide open and cause the engine to bog all the way down to where it shuts off or let off and go to idle for a few seconds and then take off again tells me it has to be a fuel issue. Nothing electrical should be influenced in any way by the throttle position. I have replaced everything from that tank barb all the way to the intake port (fuel line, fuel filter, manual cut-off valve, new carb. new intake manifold and gasket.) and the results are still exactly the same. While thinking it was electrical, I replaced the CDI, Coil, checked the stator output, grounds, etc. and this changed nothing at all. It still starts on one kick even after sitting for a week at a time in between. If what I do today does not work, then I am totally and 100% baffled by this issue. My niece is selling her Suzuki 250 for $800, I might just buy that and say screw it, ha ha. Bill
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Aug 26, 2018 11:41:41 GMT -5
Solved!!!!
Finally. I was draining the fuel tank to pull the barb screen and, low and behold, even though the gas flow from the hose to my 2 liter bottle started out the full I.D. of the fuel line...after about 5 seconds...it slowed to a trickle! I was draining the fuel using the line disconnected from the downstream side of of my manual cut-off valve so I could shut it off when I needed. I installed a new petcock a few weeks ago so I figured that was not it so I pulled the line above my "new" fuel filter and the flow came out full blast! Now, replacing the fuel filter was the very first thing I did, then the fuel line, petcock, etc. because it acted like a partially clogged filter or fuel flow restriction.
So, here we are over a month later and I finally realize that maybe the Chinese fuel filter I had installed was defective and, it was. I always tell people that just because you replace a part on these Chinese scoots, the "new" part you just bought could be in worse shape than your old one. Not as bad as it was but it still happens. 4 months ago, I replaced my clutch due to bad bearings and ended up buying 3 clutches (one at a time) and all of them had very bad bearings when tested opening the box. I am still running the 4th one I bought and it seems fine. I have plenty of clutch linings, springs, bells, etc. now in my parts bin.
What threw me was that it cut out the exact same way, in the very same rpm range (above 8,000) with the filter swap so, what are the chances of that? Pretty good evidently. Fortunately, a few weeks ago I finally found a nice glass sided fuel filter for a reasonable price. It appears to be constructed very well although when it arrived, I see it is clear plastic tubing and not glass but, I installed it and....poof...no more cutting out at W.O.T. And, I have no explanation for this either, it now starts up with a 1 second push on my starter button. (Remember, it would always start with 1 kick but, I could crank the electric all day and it would never start.) It started up this way after sitting in the rain (under a decent scoot cover) for an entire week. I drove to the store and it hot started the same way with the electric starter. Beautiful. I can not figure that one out but I do not care...it is back to starting and running the way it always has.
So, the lesson here is to not totally trust a Chinese part when doing diagnostics. I bought 2 of the filters I had been running so when the problem came up, I swapped out for the second one and it changed nothing. The first filter ran fine for over 6 months, the second one was bad right out of the box.
Thanks again to all who offered very helpful suggestions. At least now I have some "new" parts that may or may not last a long time, ha ha.
Bill
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Post by tortoise2 on Aug 26, 2018 11:50:44 GMT -5
Who was the vendor for the defective fuel filter and clutches?
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Aug 26, 2018 12:31:13 GMT -5
Who was the vendor for the defective fuel filter and clutches? I discussed this in another topic somewhere but, all of those bad clutches were from different vendors. I ordered a replacement, it came in bad with metal chips in the roller bearings, so, I ordered another from a different vendor. It looked like that bearing was installed using a hammer as the end was all crushed and it would not even slide all the way onto the axle. The next one I ordered (from another source) came with the rear pulley welded on so bad that the T.I.R. (Total Indicated Runout) was about 1/2"! I am still running the 4th one and it seems fine. I do not recall where I bought these filters...probably ebay at something like 2 for $5 and free shipping if I recall. Bill PS I did not return any of the bad clutches because the return shipping would have cost me more than I paid for the clutch AND, I figured that those vendors had a bad batch of clutches and did not want to get another one. Little did I know.
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Post by tortoise2 on Aug 26, 2018 13:13:19 GMT -5
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Aug 26, 2018 13:30:01 GMT -5
This is the one I am now using. (Cost about $10.00) The one in your photo looks like the ones I was using although, I believe they had a plastic screen and my new one has a metal screen. I too had good luck with the 2 clutches I have bought over the years before this. I have had mostly good luck with parts for these scoots with the exceptions I have posted about. I have purchased brakes, master cylinder, tires, carbs., jets, fuel line, CDI's, light bulbs, tail light assembly, variators, belts, mirrors, grips, exhaust system, tach, storage trunk, and a host of other parts that have been just fine. I will add Valley Scooter Parts to my vendor shopping list...thanks. Bill
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Post by FrankenMech on Aug 27, 2018 2:12:59 GMT -5
I hope you have found all your problems, something still sounds fishy with the electric start.
Plastic screens usually work OK. Sintered brass metal elements will corrode and clog. Paper elements will saturate with water and rot.
I use the Kohler #25 050 21-S1 filter. They can be cleaned and re-used.
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PirateLabs
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 296
Location: Bowling Green, KY
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Post by PirateLabs on Aug 27, 2018 9:28:10 GMT -5
I hope you have found all your problems, something still sounds fishy with the electric start. Plastic screens usually work OK. Sintered brass metal elements will corrode and clog. Paper elements will saturate with water and rot. I use the Kohler #25 050 21-S1 filter. They can be cleaned and re-used. Well, I have no explanation why it suddenly starts just fine now on the electric. I had tried the electric, as I always do, earlier yesterday and it was no go as usual. After changing the filter I figured, why not? So, I hit the starter button and...vroom...it instantly started. Shut it off and did it again...same thing...started right up. Rode around a bit, turned it off and it hot started just fine so that is when I decided to take it to the store where it started yet again instantly. There is no reason that better fuel flow should have changed the electric start situation so, I am still going to keep an eye on it before trusting it to ride to and from work again. Rode it about 20 miles very close to home just in case and so far, so good. (I just kept going around a 2 block area) This new gas filter in the photo comes apart for easy cleaning as well. Both end caps just unscrew. You can replace the 2 O-ring seals if needed also. Bill
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