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Post by oldgeek on Nov 16, 2023 19:11:33 GMT -5
Started out on a ride today, had to turn around and come back due to the exhaust got loud all the sudden. Found the top EX flange bolt and stud missing, feel like I just checked them not long ago. I had to make another gasket and fight the pipe to get it halfway lined up but its fixed. Set out again and got a decent ride in. Near the end of the ride a lean spot appeared at around 1/4 - 1/3 throttle, not sure what is up with that. Got back to the shop and decided to put a 48PJ in place of the current 45PJ It did seem to help but it is hard to say because I ended up switching out the variator at the same time.
It seems I am having similar problems with the ramp plate slipping on the crank, like I did on the 103cc. I had to work with the ramp plate a while to get it off of the crankshaft. There is a slight groove at the shoulder of the crank, stupid but pretty sure it was made that way. No damage to the crank, but I decided to put a Polini variator setup on in place of the Keli variator and SEF ramp plate. I also measured belt wear, -.6mm in 37 miles. Plenty of belt dust everywhere, but overall belt was in good condition. I also changed out the fixed half of the variator from a stock Kymco to an aluminum aftermarket. The aftermarket fixed halves have never performed well for me, I always ended up going back to the stock Kymco fixed half, but Its time to pull out all options to get this thing a little better.
My last test ride of the day on the longer test loop at dusk and 3 deer jumped me at the electrical substation, I was about 50mph at the time. It happened a couple years ago, same place and scared the **** out of me then, this time was no exception. I gotta remember to avoid that area around dusk.
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 16, 2023 20:37:07 GMT -5
I also measured belt wear, -.6mm in 37 miles. You really are after my belt busting champion title. 😱 I did break a Chinese belt in under 8 miles though. Come at me bro. 🤣 Seriously, what I learned moving from the LC 103 and TPR 86cc that broke a belt every 100-250 miles to the RC-1 that has more power and belts can last over 1,000 miles is that tiny differences can make or break your belts. I still don't know what exactly causes all of the issues with my Minarelli version of the Malossi OR CVT exactly, but I modified the rear pulley when I first got it to make it open or close a little more. I could inspect it today and it would still seem just fine to me. For some reason the CVT hated it apparently, even though it performed well and I tried to align the front and rear pullies as well as I could and so on. I've never bought a new rear Malossi rear pulley and tried it unmodified to see if it indeed fixed it but I really think that was it for me. You having these failures while mixing and matching a bunch of CVT parts makes me think it's pretty possible that mismatches that anyone short of an absolute pro would never realize could be the cause. Easy method would be to get an entire OR kit from one of the big dogs... Malossi, Polini, Stage6... but I don't know what's available for your scoot. They're not cheap, but neither is a pile of belts. |
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 17, 2023 21:06:02 GMT -5
Went on a 30 mile ride today with oldskool, was very enjoyable. We split up and I went back to the shop to do some tuning. I did make a important discovery today, even though I just went up to a 48 from a 45 PJ, it still must be undersized. I say that because I was fiddling with the air screw and discovered that any time the air screw was not all the way in, it created a lean spot. No more than a 1/4 turn open and the lean spot started to show up. I plan on working on that a bit tomorrow. I lost another .3mm on the width of the belt in 30 miles today. I made changes to the CVT again. Tried a couple weight changes, added shims and removed shims completely. The belt rides fairly low in the rear pulley, over 1/4" at least despite using the malossi belt which is longer than a stock belt. Malossi 6111153 = 734x18.2x30 Stock Kymco = 717x17.75x30 I saw another Malossi belt last night and bought it. Malossi 6113501 = 743x18x30 I am hoping it will help get me into a lower gear at launch and not be too long to be allowed to get to the bottom of the rear pulley at WOT. I also enlisted the help of a witch doctor to shrink my battery down quite a bit. He charged me $50 but I think it is 10lbs lighter now! Before:  After:  Santa came early for me this year, today as a matter of fact. He brought me a Dragy so I can verify how slow I am! Thanks Santa, one of the best gifts I have ever received IMO. |
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Post by aeroxbud on Nov 18, 2023 4:25:54 GMT -5
You just got want to get this monster on the speed list. Now thanks to Santa, you can. 👌
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 18, 2023 18:53:42 GMT -5
Well its not ready for the speed list, but it's not horrible when you consider my current setup. Things to consider about its current setup. 1)It is ported for somewhere around 10,000+ RPM (192ex 130Xfer) and I am currently using a street pipe that makes peak power much lower down. 2)The belt is too short, I am having trouble finding the right one, there is well over a 1/4" of room to spare on the outer edge of the rear pulley. 3) The variator weights are a tad too heavy, you can hear it on the launch, but it helps my top end. 3)The carb is still giving me hell to tune. 4)260lb payload. That last one may be unfixable at this point.  Utilized an unused mirror mount to make a place for Dragy. The dragy has a magnetic mount, the wire ties are for just in case.  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 18, 2023 19:58:30 GMT -5
Considering the issues listed, it’s going quite well. The dragy is really good for helping you shave time.
You can set custom parameters. I set mine to do :
60ft
330ft
1/8 mi
1000ft
1/4 mile
0-30
0-40
0-50
0-60
It does all of those every run. If you quit before the 1/4 or whatever that’s fine. 1/8 mile is all of the space most of us scoot folks need to dial it in. Having a bunch of data like that can help to figure out where it’s working well. If you record RPM (GoPro for me) and add it to that data, then you can really see what’s working.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 21, 2023 18:26:17 GMT -5
I took a much closer look at the HPI mini rotor Iggy I picked up from the land of Treats. Everything looks like it would work with the exception of the flywheel, the taper is too big and simply the wrong one for this application. Treatland said to send it back for a refund but I would rather get it working than send it back. The iggy kit # 210K015 that I received includes the 210R031 flywheel. The flywheel is not marked with a part# but measurement specs from the HPI site confirm it is a 210R031 flywheel. The kit Treatland sent me is the kit HPI specifies for the Kymco ZX, Honda Elite, Dio and a few other scoots so Treatland is not at fault, but there is no way the 210R031 flywheel will fit any of the scoots I listed. I started looking at measurements for other flywheels HPI has for various other scooters. After setting up the HPI iggy on a spare set of cases with a stock Kymco crank I took some careful measurements. I found that a 210R030 flywheel should fit correctly or be real close. I Emailed Treatland back and forth a few times and they are going to special order the 210R030 flywheel for me. It cost me another $55 dollars including shipping but I am willing to try it, will be worth it if it works. The new flywheel will not be here for a couple weeks. The HPI 210R030 flywheel I special ordered arrived yesterday. I tried the whole HPI iggy setup on a spare set of cases. The flywheel now fits the taper of the crank correctly and lines up to the stator perfectly. I have never set up a iggy that uses a flywheel that does not have a keyway for the crank. I have been thinking about how I am going to get it installed and set up properly. The instructions read "fix the flywheel on the shaft 2mm before TDC". It also mentions you can set it anywhere between 2mm-4mm to maximise performance. I plan to set it at 2mm but the question is how? The spark plug hole on these motors comes in at an angle, so a traditional micrometer type piston stop will not measure correctly. I have a spare head for this motor so I put the micrometer in the plug hole and used a straight edge to line the tip of the micrometer up flush with the head mounting surface. I screwed the micrometer in 2mm and then used two, 2mm stacks of feeler gauges on opposite sides of the combustion chamber to make a bridge for the straight edge. I had to turn the micrometer another .15 to get it to touch the straight edge. I repeated the process a few times to see if it agreed each time and it did. So that tells me to get my 2mm, I have to turn the micrometer in 2.15mm The only issue I can come up with is the fact that since the piston top is curved and the micrometer is in at an angle the contact point for the micrometer on the piston at TDC will be in a slightly different place when at TDC versus when at 2mm before TDC. If you know a better way please tell me cause I am new to this stuff. Here is the curve the HPI iggy has. I only have the single curve CDI for now. Another question I have is the standard curve is Red the "optional" curve is Blue are they not reversed? wouldn't the red curve be the more aggressive one?  |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 21, 2023 23:22:07 GMT -5
Aside from potential issues with piston contour, there would also be a risk of the spark plug hole not being the exact same angle in every head. I've never worked with an engine like yours so I'd probably take the head off and use a bridge with a dial indicator. That's more of a pain with a liquid cooled setup, but hopefully this is not something that would need to be done that often. If you can rotate the iggy, then you could avoid that setup for adjustments by using a timing light instead.
The red curve has less advance than the blue curve beyond 4kRPM.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 21, 2023 23:52:58 GMT -5
Aside from potential issues with piston contour, there would also be a risk of the spark plug hole not being the exact same angle in every head. I've never worked with an engine like yours so I'd probably take the head off and use a bridge with a dial indicator. That's more of a pain with a liquid cooled setup, but hopefully this is not something that would need to be done that often. If you can rotate the iggy, then you could avoid that setup for adjustments by using a timing light instead. The red curve has less advance than the blue curve beyond 4kRPM. So if I understand correctly: If I can rotate the stator to any position I want (it will do that) Then I just slap the flywheel on basically anywhere, get the stator eyeball close, then use the timing light to adjust stator position where it needs to be? I am confused, there is just 1 mark on the FW and 1 mark on the stator. EDIT: I think I get it. I would run the motor at 3500 RPM and the marks should line up. Then I would know it is set right? |
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Post by 190mech on Nov 22, 2023 4:40:59 GMT -5
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 22, 2023 6:22:39 GMT -5
I could probably figure it out doing it that way, and the way Brent mentioned by taking off the head. Either way the head has to come off and that aint happening unless it breaks, which will likely be soon enough the way I pound on this thing LOL! If I cannot get the HPI set up I will just leave the stock iggy in place, it works. |
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Post by 190mech on Nov 22, 2023 6:57:12 GMT -5
To set up the degree wheel just fab up a 'dead stop' out of an old spark plug and bolt,doesnt matter if the plug hole is angled,just that it stops the piston in the same place in both directions for location of TDC..Also you have the iggy chart so just set the degree wheel at 25 degrees before TDC and run with that! 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/353 |
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 22, 2023 8:00:55 GMT -5
I like John's idea, though you don't even have to leave home to do it. 😋 I've got degree vs distance calculators here too. If you convert the 2mm spec at your stroke and conrod length to an amount of degrees before TDC, you can setup a dial indicator on the engine and align markings at that point instead of 2mm. Or you can do as John said and go straight for 25 degrees since they say the markings on the flywheel and stator align at that point. www.49ccscoot.com/calculators.htmlThis video goes into detail about the MVT ignition installation. I'd hope there are useful similarities with yours. youtu.be/JVZr74Lt0DQ?si=rL6HNRELp7VyWeveSetting up a degree wheel. youtu.be/q4X03-J7SUQ?si=Qfq0SYxFyMQqbIi7Here's in depth finding TDC vs true TDC with a dial indicator and degree wheel. youtu.be/TKTNKGCeOkc?si=6-3PMDmigxID4PB9 |
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 22, 2023 19:32:00 GMT -5
I think Johns approach is the way for me to go. Less pain and close enough for this build, it is not like I am turning 14K with an RC1. Now I just have to make some time to give it a try.
Work, rain and other stuff kept me from doing much scooter work today. I did have time to fit the longer Malossi belt that arrived on my doorstep yesterday. It is about 9mm longer and just under 1mm thicker than the other Malossi belt I have been using. I made a few runs and could easily tell I was quicker. I left the Dragy at the house so it will be Friday before I can see if my butt dyno is right.
I am rethinking about what I said about the V8 pipe for 120cc I am using. I dont really know where the power band is and I cannot seem to find any info for it on the web. If anyone knows any specs for it please share.
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Post by oldgeek on Nov 25, 2023 18:04:49 GMT -5
Finally got a little time this evening to verify my butt dynos results. It is a little faster doing nothing but using the longer belt.
Previously:60ft 2.47 0-30 mph 3.11
Currently: 60ft 2.33 0-30 mph 2.69 1/8 mile 11.14
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