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Post by repherence2 on Oct 16, 2018 20:50:12 GMT -5
I have a suggestion to add. You need to put an oil check valve on the oil line if you are still using your oil pump. The dell carbs don't have a check ball built in, so it let's oil into the carb/bowl while it's parked, this leads to hard and smoky starts and eventually a fouled plug. Here is a link to Partzilla showing the oil pump assembly on a 2001 Vino. I ordered part #11 and stuck it in between the pump and carb as shown and it's solved the problem. Smoky start up when the bike sits for a long time...smoke out the neighborhood for about 5 minutes trying to clear out the oil. I've done that so many times  |
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Oct 17, 2018 12:25:09 GMT -5
Well, the party's over, for now. The Zuma won't start... I've been ignoring these starting issues while focusing on engine and CVT, but now it's unavoidable... HEre's a short history, as brief as I can be without leaving out anything important
- bought the Zuma about a month ago and the PO said he just put in a new battery. Didn't say much about mods, etc. I did note the dual-headlight mod though.
- all was fine until about 2 weeks in, when the electric start wouldn't work. We got it going with the kickstart, pretty easily
- we occasionally try the electric start but there isn't enough juice to do more than turn it over a bit, weakly
- so we've been exclusively using the kickstart, but we remember the headlights coming on originally, and now they don't come on unless the engine is running
- when low on gas, or even running out, it would be hard starting, but Starting Fluid helped and all was good
- just yesterday, it was hard starting, to the point my son was stranded at school. I came over and added some oil - we hadn't put any in for a while, and it started after a few tries. Assumed that was due to low oil, although I was surprised that more didn't go in the tank
- this morning, it was hard starting again, and I helped my son to get it going. I shouldn't have let him go! It died on the way and now it's parked on the side of the road
- I've been reviewing the tech section and the battery check and I do have a charger with a read-out so I was trying all that. It was reading about 11.5 and would charge to about 13.5, and it had more juice for turning over the engine, but not enough to get it started.
- So today, I went and bought a new battery, assuming that the charging system on the Zuma was faulty, and that it eventually killed the battery that the other guy bought. The place I got it from needed to charge it for an hour. I installed it on the side of the road and it kicked over a bit but not enough to get it started. Just like the old battery! It even smoked a bit from the negative ground terminal. I bought some fresh starting fluid, but it wouldn't start, even after about 100 kicks. I was by there about 4 times today.
- I swapped out the spark plug and that didn't help.
- I guess we'll throw it into the back of the Suburban tonight, bring it home, unload it, and then I'll work on it over the weekend.
Some things I'll try -
- check out Nology Hot Wire that I just put in recently (red flag!) and see if the connections all look good. Maybe swap it back to stock, although I'll still need to use the connector to 'splice' the wire.
- double check plugs, gapping, etc
- take apart carb and see if there's anything fishy.
- read up on charging system, and maybe the starter
- any other suggestions?
Thx!
Jack
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Post by islandscrub on Oct 17, 2018 15:33:58 GMT -5
The stock starter has issues with turning over a 72 kit. I added a large ground wire from the starter body to the frame, directly to the battery negative on mine. It helps a little but I've noticed that the starter itself goes bad, not sure if it's age or what, but you'd expect a Yamaha part to last!
For the starting issues .. try draining the bowl and see if it's drowning in oil, this goes back to my previous post about the check valve. If it is, your plug is probably fouled too.
The headlights should only run while the engine is running, unless there was a conversion to LED.
You should read around 14v or so at the battery while the engine is revving, that would indicate good charging.
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Post by geoffh on Oct 17, 2018 15:40:44 GMT -5
Jack,don't,t get hung up on the electric starter most of us don,t use it ,rely on the kick start,sounds like your grief is carb related,the timing charging system is mostly bullet proof,easily overlooked is the petcock it,s got a 'hidden' filter and also if it,s diaphragm fails can leak fuel into the cyl overnight ,keep at it.
Geoff
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Post by ryan_ott on Oct 17, 2018 17:51:33 GMT -5
The Zuma lights are only on when running they are powered off of the ac from the stator. I’d look at the start solenoid or starter for the weak cranking. It’s really only a sealed relay. Check that it at least turns over with the plug out. For battery condition, 12.5+ should be ok stationary, when running I’d like to see 13.5+ and no higher then 14.9 when running with some rpm. Petcocks go bad but I think the oil is leaking into the carb causing hard starts. Pull the plug and spin it over to try to clear the oil or look for an oil soaked air filter. An unlit propane torch directed into the air box may help get things going. This didn’t stop while running, did it? It that’s the case there may be other things going on. Start solenoid (relay) location  |
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Post by repherence2 on Oct 17, 2018 20:51:32 GMT -5
I changed out my stock starter solenoid and replaced it with a Bosch relay. And just as islandscrub mentioned, I also upgraded my starter's power wire and ground wire to 10 gage wire from a car stereo shop.
Maybe it lost compression... compression test, hopefully no hole in the piston.
Did you check for spark? Check the signal wire that plugs onto the coil, I've had the experience of the signal wire strands breaking/corroding inside the insulation resulting in no continuity, thus the coil wasn't firing.
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Oct 18, 2018 19:26:48 GMT -5
It took about 5 minutes to diagnose the starting problem. I had to get the bike home as it wasn't in a good spot to troubleshoot, so just took out the panel to have a looky...  That's the oil line that came off!! It started right up after I sorted that out. It is a bit short, but I think I've got it solved with a zip tie. I'll certainly keep an eye on it!! On to sort through the electric start, just as a nice-to-have. Otherwise, seems to run great, and I'll keep working on the CVT tuning. I also have the oil check valve coming in the mail and I'll put that on when it comes. That may/should add a tiny bit of length to the hose which can only help. Thx for all the feedback. |
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Nov 23, 2018 11:27:00 GMT -5
The scoot has been running well lately and I *think* it's pretty well sorted. I need to keep an eye on the temp, and also check on the tach. I took it out for a ride today, and tried an app (Strava) that I use for bicycling. It is pretty windy and also, it's been tuned for my son who is about 50-60 pounds lighter than me. Even still, the GPS analytics seem to say it goes upper 40s (47mph?) on the flats and I got it up to 54.4mph on a downhill grade. My son's commute to school has bigger hills than these. Maybe I'll get him to try out some tracking analytics... Here's a screenshot, and it looks like the section from mile 1 to mile 2 was the flat part of the ride. I turned around part-way through that section. It's really hard to find any flat roads near the house...  |
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Nov 26, 2018 20:52:20 GMT -5
Did first compression test on this build. It's an NCY sport BBK that my friend helped to install two months ago. Was hoping for a better number but this doesn't seem terrible. Maybe I could put a new head gasket on it and re-torque the bolts?  As a comparison, I did my first solo BBK install last week on an '05 Zuma, with a Malossi sport kit. Here's the results of that one: (I was able to start with the electric start on the second Zuma, but the first one above is kickstart-only. I kicked enough that I think it maxed out, so might not even be worth mentioning)  |
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Post by islandscrub on Nov 27, 2018 14:53:43 GMT -5
These both look fine. The malossi kit probably has better (closer) squish clearance so more compression.
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Post by niz76 on Nov 29, 2018 11:07:04 GMT -5
Ya I'd be happy with either one. The one over 180psi actually seems a little high but probably ok if it's running good and not spark knocking etc...
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jack667
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 190
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Post by jack667 on Nov 29, 2018 12:54:45 GMT -5
Ya I'd be happy with either one. The one over 180psi actually seems a little high but probably ok if it's running good and not spark knocking etc... It is making a funny sound. I think I'll post a video when I can get around to it. Since it wasn't running before - and I just bought it - I don't have any history on it... |
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Post by Delpzie on Nov 29, 2018 13:36:33 GMT -5
I see nobody pointed out here , those two inlet`s on the carb should be blocked out.
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Post by islandscrub on Nov 29, 2018 14:57:04 GMT -5
I see nobody pointed out here , those two inlet`s on the carb should be blocked out. I'm not familiar with this carb so I didnt mention it. Seems like theres 3!? That's the most I've seen on a carb. |
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Post by ryan_ott on Nov 29, 2018 15:13:30 GMT -5
It’s a coolant passage for water cooled bikes. If it were vacuum fittings yes block them off but they don’t go into the carb itself, just the casting to keep warm, either for emissions bs or carb freezing so I don’t see a real need to block off.
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