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Post by conrad on Oct 21, 2019 17:14:30 GMT -5
So we all want a turbo ped, but most of us know that it's almost impossible to turbo a gy6 motor and make usable boost. Having one cylinder to make a turbo boost just doesn't make too much sense. And having a 2 valve makes it even harder. But what about a supercharged 4v. I've seen blowers like the amr300-amr500. I feel that it would work with an efi kit. What do you guys think. Crank power over exhaust power?
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Post by aeroxbud on Oct 22, 2019 2:38:44 GMT -5
Do it, do it, do it.
If nothing else it would be a great project. 😁
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Post by tiny on Oct 22, 2019 6:23:31 GMT -5
Peugeot has made turbo powered scooters in the past. 125cc with a turbo to produce 150cc+ level of power.
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Post by dexameth on Oct 22, 2019 10:23:39 GMT -5
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Oct 22, 2019 12:14:06 GMT -5
I have seen a nice monkey bike with a supercharger worked out nice . I bet the heat from heated air in the supercharger killed a lot of power the longer you use it .. It was still cool as Hell
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Post by conrad on Oct 22, 2019 13:39:32 GMT -5
Yeah not turbo though. its a compressor aka supercharger attached to the CVT. Also has a heat exchanger or intercooler. The problem is I can't find any aftermarket examples of "simple bolt on" units. Yes S-charger does make a small motor blowers but for 500$. No thanks. amr300/500 are the only blowers that have seem promising, but I think it's still too big for a 150cc motor. |
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Post by jackrides on Oct 22, 2019 15:40:32 GMT -5
Spent some time in my armchair (straight) considering this potentially good idea. Some complexities are:
Intake valve being closed about 70% of the time creates large pressure fluctuations. A pressure relief (blowoff) valve
would be seriously polluting. Maybe a large intake pipe between blower and head could moderate this? Might have room
for a few cooling lines? (Small water pump to small copper lines in the pipe & small coil in the outside airflow?)
Total airflow into a 50cc 4T @ 9000 rpm is (WAG) 7 to 8 cfm. Triple for a 150cc. Might not need to be crank driven, electric fan might work?
Requires all LED lighting to reduce elec useage. Might need higher output stator. Standard fan (think window fan type
blades) do not work well against pressure. 'Squirrel cage' fans (think air moving type of fans in a central heating
system) are designed to work against some pressure. Variable speed fan might be good but use more elec. Similar utube
videos should be wearing mouse ears, don't go there, start from blank paper.
A carb that allows the engine to both start then run will be fun to tune. Perhaps the blower shouldn't operate below 2000
rpm?
Heavy on parts finding, moderate to heavy on fabrication, moderate on cost, very heavy on time and fun.
Any thoughts or takers?
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Post by christopher on Oct 22, 2019 16:47:23 GMT -5
I would set the carburetor up as a pull through unit so the carb is under vacuum from the blower intake. How about a water methanol injection unit? That would cool the intake air, not sure how to scale it down for a small scooter motor. Would also help cool the cylinder.
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Post by conrad on Oct 22, 2019 17:10:32 GMT -5
I would set the carburetor up as a pull through unit so the carb is under vacuum from the blower intake. How about a water methanol injection unit? That would cool the intake air, not sure how to scale it down for a small scooter motor. Would also help cool the cylinder. I would skip the blow through carb and go straight to an efi plug and play. To many variables and manual adjustments. Efi self adjust and would have a more accurate time. (Better afr) |
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Oct 22, 2019 17:57:29 GMT -5
Some complexities are: Intake valve being closed about 70% of the time creates large pressure fluctuations. A pressure relief (blowoff) valve would be seriously polluting. Maybe a large intake pipe between blower and head could moderate this? The blower would be pulling in fresh air and just dumping it back to the atmosphere. It would be parasitic, but not polluting? Also, blow-off valve dumps at certain PSI. Supercharger bypass-valves (or whatever they're called) are vacuum actuated, but still might pose an issue for the fact that the intake valve(s) is closed for so long. |
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Post by jackrides on Oct 22, 2019 20:57:02 GMT -5
Carb before the blower is the best way for carb use. EFI is the best overall, but at a much higher cost. I discussed squirrel cage blowers with a HVAC tech and their test blowers can withstand a totally sealed 'exhaust'(cause I don't know what to call it) space.
Fuzzy, if you're on EFI, ok. If you're on carb before blower I don't understand. Clarify?
SAFETY REALIZATION: Sometimes electric motors can cause a spark by brush contacts, or by metal to metal friction. A spark in the intake tract, much more likely with a carb, may cause an unwanted explosion of shrapnel between your legs. Use brushless motor and/or isolate elec.parts by seals from intake tract; and be sure there is no metal to metal contact in the fan area. A sheet metal shroud might be an extra safety factor.
Methanol is its own area. Junior dragster people have knowledge of it for small engines (typ 250cc). Not my act.
Having said that, I will still try it. If someone beats me to it hopefully we can still learn from each other.
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Oct 23, 2019 5:08:58 GMT -5
sorry, my bad. carb 101, vacuum is required to pick up fuel, pushing air into the carb would blow air back into the bowl.
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Post by SMALL CC TEK on Oct 23, 2019 14:37:01 GMT -5
You could use a smart carb because the fuel bowl has a pressurization circuit technologyelevated.comor a lectron |
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Post by fuzzyruttin on Oct 30, 2019 18:23:34 GMT -5
What if you put vacuum valves on both the intake and exhaust side of the supercharger (between carb/supercharger and supercharger/manifold) and connect them with an external hose. When no vacuum, valves open to continually recirculate supercharged air, which maintains a closed system. Vacuum closes valves and operates carb. ??
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Post by FrankenMech on Oct 31, 2019 9:11:25 GMT -5
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