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Post by magoconnor on Mar 1, 2020 19:58:46 GMT -5
Hello.
Im currently not able to mount a speedo on my bike, execpt for a gps but well I dont have a spare one.
I read someone on this forum talking about changing the oil by the hours instead of keeping track of the miles driven.
My question is how many hours does it roughly take, to drive 600 miles?
Or how many hours driven between oil change?
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Post by christopher on Mar 1, 2020 20:02:37 GMT -5
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Post by mikehailwood on Mar 1, 2020 22:29:37 GMT -5
Uh...30mph X 20 hours = 600 miles?
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 14, 2020 7:26:25 GMT -5
At the risk of sounding like an asshole...
I have manufactured and tested motor oils for 35+ years. I say keep it simple. If it goes in clear and yellow, OK! If it comes out clear and yellow? You did it too soon. If shit floating? you have engine problems.
If you run 10,000 rpm daily for three months? Check it. Do not use a race car or bike team as a guide. They get it free!
I did a test on a V-6 Toyota for ten years, using a diesel formulated oil on a petrol engine. At the first 10,000 we dumped and tested it. No viscosity issues and filtering would have been OK. WE put in new oil. Next test was nearly the same. No dirt, no varnish, no problem. Little discoloration.
The BIG deal is the filter. My Tacoma had a Top dollar Donaldson racing filter. It was big and effective. Nothing else to know...except that two strokes are contaminating that crankcase oil every cycle! Fuel and two-stroke oil are coming in contact...worse upon deceleration.
What are you protecting? Bearings. Nothing else. In a scooter? Only the crank. On a 2T shifter? Crank and gearbox and clutch.
In my opinion...Take a sample weekly and use your nose. If looks like shit/smells like shit and tastes like shit...change it yesterday. Do not forget that you have senses. In this case, smell the new, clean oil in the bottle. Take a snort when you pull the dip shit...OOPS, dip stick. Over time you will know. If your nose says HMMMM, maybe? It is time. Your eyes see color and debris.
If you doubt your brain...I have a story.
I used my finger tips on pump motor bearing housings...every time I walked by. One plant, I had 163 pumps...some too hot. I never needed to record the daily temperatures. My brain always knew when something was different. Then I could get an instrument or an analyst. I always detected bearing failures before the reliability techs. Simple numeric data...I had more. In my finger tips.
Oh..not related to oil, but an average humans finger tips can hold 140 degrees F, (60 C) for about four seconds. Above, you need a pyrometer.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Mar 14, 2020 8:57:01 GMT -5
Gotta agree that taking a whiff of the oil will tell you a lot. When it smells 'sour', it is likely contaminated with condensation or fuel, or has been in the crankcase too long. These small engines will heat the lube a lot quicker than a liquid cooled truck or car. There is not so much oil that it takes a long time to get hot, while the multiple quarts in a car or truck crankcase will take longer. At least that's my experience.
Color may not be so reliable a test in some engines. Diesels will soot the oil quickly, and some older engines will also make the oil dark when it is almost fresh. If you take the dipstick and drip some oil on a clean white paper towel, and wait, you will see the oil wick out from the drop point, and it will leave behind any dirt that it carried with it. If no dirt or specks, the oil is not carrying much with it.
Most oil that is replaced still is good as a lubricant, but has used up the additives. It can be filtered and re-used with a new additive package.
Draining the oil when hot helps remove floating 'stuff' as the stuff doesn't have time to fall out of suspension if the oil is drained soon after shutdown. If your crankcase is clean, it doesn't make a lot of difference. My choice when changing oil is to use both drains on the 139QMB, the side drain and the filter drain. That lets the most old lube drain, as far as I know.
tom
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Post by snaker on Mar 14, 2020 10:20:27 GMT -5
Yeah, oil inspection is your best bet. Mileage is a blunt estimate, hours are the same, just give-or-take. By the way hours are intended to be from a hour meter tied to the engine, not a guess from your last trip time.
On higher quality (expensive?) engines many people, including me tend to change oil early, reasoning that oil is a small cost vs engine damage. Thing is a better quality engine can handle longer change intervals.
Lower quality engines actually need more frequent changes because they are grinding up metal all the time.
Thaigyro makes a good point about filtering. My GY6 150 has a oil cooler and a spinon filter. I would guess that alone would give me maybe 50% longer oil life.
A lot of manufacturers recommend oil changes at least yearly on seldom run engines. I've had several that fit that category. Some I changed out decent looking oil and some I refused to. I cant say I noticed a difference.
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 15, 2020 2:53:20 GMT -5
Gotta agree that taking a whiff of the oil will tell you a lot. When it smells 'sour', it is likely contaminated with condensation or fuel, or has been in the crankcase too long. These small engines will heat the lube a lot quicker than a liquid cooled truck or car. There is not so much oil that it takes a long time to get hot, while the multiple quarts in a car or truck crankcase will take longer. At least that's my experience. My GrumpyUnk covered it! Use your senses...beginning and dip sticking and dumping. I too have used the tissue test. Only problem for the inexperienced? What tissue thickness and porosity. Us diesel old guys use this often...because any diesel in the crank oil will destroy bearings. On a two banger...crank oil tends to hold together with 2T oil...they combine, but you can put it in your pickle jar over night at say 70F.... and see. Grumpy's other point...quantity. My Cummins 356 held gallons...maybe 3 or 4 or more. Top quality Delo. Changed every 10K. My scooters? Top quality synthetic...changed often. One quart? Some less.. Big deal! |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Mar 21, 2020 3:30:28 GMT -5
I just recalled another thought. In the oil refinery business, we have local labs for "intermediate" testing. Not final products, but we needed to send the next plant/process good shit!
One test we did was on vacuum resids. (Black cuts just above heavy crude) Without details...they were done at 100 degrees C.
Similarly, we did those tests on lube stocks, before final tanking. Note: They are not all the same. The tests, even with the complexity of refinery processes, were simple.
Heat the oil...to a specific temperature. Put a known and consistent quantity into a viscosity pipette. Count how long it takes to completely drain. Simple.
You can do that! Find a pipette or make one. Ensure that the bottom is covered, but allow for it to be opened up for timing. Heat your oil sample to maybe just above your operating oil temperature. I would NOT recommend 100 C. That would vaporize water...maybe you have a leak on a water cooled engine? I say record your oil operating temperature and use that plus a degree or two.
Simply count how long it takes to drain...not dripping just the main bulk. If you do this every time you pull a sample or change your oil? MORE DATA! You will find a good baseline and can know if you are in trouble or wasting money.
BTW...use glass pipettes. They clean easy. They also break easy. Not too expensive, but cheaper than broken engines. My partner is a chemist, QA manager. She has a set for making soaps and cleaners. I have motor oil testers. We can cheat.
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