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Post by hippo008 on May 9, 2020 17:32:11 GMT -5
I purchased a 2018 Genuine Roughhouse for $450 from a powersports dealer in my area. It was sold to me "as is" as it was abandoned by its previous owner. All I knew about it was it had work done by the previous owner and had not run in about two years. When I saw the scooter it was in pieces with the exhaust, body panels, seat bucket, seat, carburetor, CVT cover and spark plug removed. I bought it for the asking price and got it home. The carb was clean as a whistle and everything went together just fine. After a little tinkering the scooter starts first or second kick. I took it out for a ride and something was clearly wrong. Anything past 1/4 throttle and the bike wanted to die. The RPM's would drop dramatically and the scoot would slow down dramatically. I wasnt sure what the problem was so I set it aside for a day and came back to it the next afternoon.
Today I fired up the scooter no problem. The ride was the same or even worse. Great idle and startup but terrible throttle. Jets are clean and good so I didnt think that could be the issue. It felt like the scooter would suddenly lose fuel while driving. The real problem came when I heard a knock when the scooter was idling. It was fairly faint but certainly there. I was going to write it off until I found this bad boy in the seat cover that came with the scoot.
So I decided to go for broke and pull the engine.
After I pulled the cylinder I grabbed the piston and heard a nice rattling noise coming from the wrist pin. I am not sure how but the wrist pin bearing cut flats into the wrist pin. The bearing was shredded as well. Heres the bearing and the pin.
The piston itself looked fine as did the bore. I did find the exhaust port on the cylinder a bit strange as well. The port becomes much smaller right before the exhaust studs. Not sure why this is but hey there it is. So the plan now is to purchase a new cylinder and exhaust because thats what I wanted to do all along. I would like to do a LC conversion on the Roughhouse but I am not willing to cut into the front of the kick panel to do it. Ideally I would like to build a custom panel to replace the headlight panel that would accept a radiator.
The current build plan is this. Stage 6 Streetrace / Stage 6 Sport Pro MK2 Yasuni R / Yasuni C16 17.5mm / 19mm carb.
What do yall think? Would the Sport Pro and C16 be much faster than the streetrace and yasuni R? I am also having a hard time deciding on a carb. How do I go about choosing a size? It seems to be a smaller carb will be easier to tune on a more mild bore.
AG-
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Post by aeroxbud on May 9, 2020 17:50:52 GMT -5
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Post by Zino on May 9, 2020 18:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by hippo008 on May 9, 2020 22:14:02 GMT -5
Ive been reading through lots of dyno numbers. PedParts seems to have a lot of the best information available. What is the hypothetical limit of the stock crank? Ive been told 11k is about the limit of any stock Minarelli crank, lower if a china clone. However I have also been told stock cranks do just fine into high rpm builds up into 14k. Ive been looking around online and there are seemingly only two "race" cranks available for PGO engines. Im not sure if they are rated to the RPM required. Lastly, I am always a bit nervous with aluminum single ring cylinders. Can I expect the same reliability from an Aluminum bore as a two ring cast iron?
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Post by Zino on May 10, 2020 6:09:55 GMT -5
Cast iron Vs Aluminum kit reliability Reliabilty treat em right with good oil and proper jetting. Aluminum gives less warning to tuning mistakes Cast iron will want to soft eize before it burns a hole in the piston . Aluminum can run hotter and closer to the edge of burning a hole in the piston before it seizes . 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/12607/ohhbuddys-47mph-genuine-buddy-70ccPretty extreme results with the buddy instead of the roughhouse . He did replace his Crank to one of the pgo race cranks . Keeping the stock Crank under 10 k or 11k rpms has been the guideline for many minny builds . I dont know anybody on here that feels turning 14k rpms with a stock Crank is a good idea.
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Post by rehabkymco on May 10, 2020 6:18:47 GMT -5
My suggestions is Sport Pro, C16 and a cp21 carb. Oh and get a crank riki tic. The pedparts dyno sheets ive looked at puts that set up at 11 to 12 HP @ 11-12k rpm
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Post by aeroxbud on May 10, 2020 10:34:12 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is the mileage on your crank. The higher the mileage, the more likely to fail. I personally would replace the crank if I were going beyond a sport build.
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Post by hippo008 on May 11, 2020 22:53:55 GMT -5
My crank has an unknown amount of miles on it. I think a safe bet is about 3000 miles on it, a bone stock engine too. You guys think I will need a new crank if I go with the Yasuni R and Stage 6 Sport Pro MK2? I am still undecided about either the Streetrace or Sport Pro though. Well see.
Im having a hard time deciding on a carb. The 19mm carb size seems to be a sweet spot. Im not sure which one to purchase. I know the Genuine intakes are different. I just cant decide on a brand/model. Polini CP? Dellorto? I just dont know. Ive been told 21mm carbs are notorious for being hard to tune. What do you guys think?
My current plan is to purchase the carb, variator and exhaust upgrades first all while riding around on a cheap 70cc kit. Then after I get some funds together I would like to build a custom fiberglass panel to replace the headlight panel on the Roughhouse where I could mount a radiator.
Hopefully it starts up soon!
Thanks for the help folks.
AG-
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Post by rehabkymco on May 12, 2020 4:51:50 GMT -5
www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage6-sport-pro-mkii-cylinder-kits-a-closer-lookRead threw this an take a look at the dyno sheets. The mk2 is a 10k+ rpm kit. Now for what I've read and heard about cranks don't just break due to rpms. But you've gotta keep in mind, your stock crank, even in a genuine, was originally intended for like 4hp and maybe 10k rpm. Now the mk2, with a c16 and 21mm dello,according to pedparts, makes over 11hp. And they show it making 12.5hp with an untuned variator. Even with an R instead of the c16 your still about 10hp. That's 2.5-3x the factory intended power and your 3x as likely to bend a rod or the whole crank. At least that's my $.02.
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Post by hippo008 on May 12, 2020 12:29:28 GMT -5
www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage6-sport-pro-mkii-cylinder-kits-a-closer-lookRead threw this an take a look at the dyno sheets. The mk2 is a 10k+ rpm kit. Now for what I've read and heard about cranks don't just break due to rpms. But you've gotta keep in mind, your stock crank, even in a genuine, was originally intended for like 4hp and maybe 10k rpm. Now the mk2, with a c16 and 21mm dello,according to pedparts, makes over 11hp. And they show it making 12.5hp with an untuned variator. Even with an R instead of the c16 your still about 10hp. That's 2.5-3x the factory intended power and your 3x as likely to bend a rod or the whole crank. At least that's my $.02. Ive been reading through those Dyno articles from Pedparts. When you put it in terms of horsepower gained it makes a lot more sense. A 300% horsepower increase would be problematic in any system. Ill be sure to swap in the appropriate crank for my setup. Seems like you recommend a 21mm carb. Why the 21? Im having a hard time sizing carbs.
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Post by aeroxbud on May 12, 2020 13:04:40 GMT -5
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Post by rehabkymco on May 12, 2020 19:34:25 GMT -5
www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage6-sport-pro-mkii-cylinder-kits-a-closer-lookRead threw this an take a look at the dyno sheets. The mk2 is a 10k+ rpm kit. Now for what I've read and heard about cranks don't just break due to rpms. But you've gotta keep in mind, your stock crank, even in a genuine, was originally intended for like 4hp and maybe 10k rpm. Now the mk2, with a c16 and 21mm dello,according to pedparts, makes over 11hp. And they show it making 12.5hp with an untuned variator. Even with an R instead of the c16 your still about 10hp. That's 2.5-3x the factory intended power and your 3x as likely to bend a rod or the whole crank. At least that's my $.02. Ive been reading through those Dyno articles from Pedparts. When you put it in terms of horsepower gained it makes a lot more sense. A 300% horsepower increase would be problematic in any system. Ill be sure to swap in the appropriate crank for my setup. Seems like you recommend a 21mm carb. Why the 21? Im having a hard time sizing carbs. I have a polini CP21 on my build. Which my build is my amateur Homebrew attempt on a Sport Pro Mark I. Plus pedparts used a 21mm dello in their tests. Also a 21mm gives you some room to go to a proper midrace/racing cylinder later where a 19mm is going to be the smallest carb to run on a "midrace". And just to put out there the sport pro is already a "middle of the road" midrace kit. And yes 21s are a bit of a pain to tune, if your running a basic sport 70 with a street pipe and a 21. But with a cylinder and chamber pipe that wants a 21, not so much. It's just changing jets at that point.
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Post by hippo008 on May 13, 2020 16:33:46 GMT -5
Took some measurements for the custom panel today. My initial plan was to make a panel somewhat like those found in the car audio circles. A wooden structure is cut from MDF and the mounting points for the speaker are suspended in the box. Then you use some stretchy fabric like fleece and stretch it over the entire shape then glass it. The result is a smooth, strong and attractive fiberglass pod that I thought would work well for my project.
Sadly this will not work for a few reasons. The headlight cowl I am going to replace sits over the kick panel underneath it, not flush with it. Secondly the headlight cowl has a significant curve in its bottom edge to match the lower kick panel, something I couldnt achieve easily in wood. I thought about steam bending some planks to match the curve but the shape is just too complicated.
That leaves me with what I was hoping to avoid, a foam core mold. I used to shape surfboards regularly and am familiar with the process which is great. However the downside is the gigantic mess this process makes. I stopped regularly shaping and glassing over 5 years ago now and my shop still has foam dust and resin dried all over the place. The big advantage here is that I am familiar with the process, unlike the speaker-type laminations, and you will end up with a much higher quality part.
Before I can build anything though I need to order a radiator to fit. I was thinking about using an Aerox radiator because of their availability and sizing. However after taking my measurements my available space is fairly rectangular while the Aerox radiator is fairly square. I am hoping to find a long rectangular radiator to use for better fitment and use of the space.
Ill get back to you guys when more happens!
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Post by aeroxbud on May 13, 2020 17:01:15 GMT -5
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Post by hippo008 on May 13, 2020 22:54:03 GMT -5
So heres the current plan. This is a radiator specifically made for aftermarket scooter builds. I dont care if the rad is specifically made for scooters or not but this one seems like a really good fit. I have attached a photo of how I would mount the radiator in the scooter for yall to review. The Ninja 250 comes with a radiator almost the perfect size for the scooter and is half the price. Unfortunately I cant find any hardware for the thing. The mounting grommets, studs and the filler neck are all not included. I am not sure where to get them which makes it hard to workout. Heres the listing on AliExpress. link
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