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Post by flavio on Jul 1, 2020 22:24:46 GMT -5
Hello all I just wanted to pass some info to you with regards to my scooter which would not start. With help of this forum I was able to push beyond frustration and go back to the basics. Yes basic like a new CDI and bringing the pickup coil closer to the raised tab on the flywheel. These two items i found out maybe responsible triggering the spark at the right time. I was chasing timing, compression and carburetors. This consumed a year of my time on and off. So it starts no but will not idle. I am looking into the air screw on the carb that i messed with. Once again I wanted to beat this engine and with the help of the administrator. Herman and Tom i am half way there and I thank them greatly. My message is to keep it simple but that involved strategic tinkling sometimes and I got that right on this forum when I was about to give up. Regards to all.
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 1, 2020 23:59:30 GMT -5
Changing things one at a time helps troubleshooting. Sometimes just sitting back and thinking helps also. These engines and scoots are really simple little machines. The engine needs fuel (proper mix) air, compression, spark. When you miss one that is the problem.
Electricals need power and ground, even simpler.
I am glad you got it sorted. |
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Post by Mech Warrior on Jul 8, 2020 21:20:18 GMT -5
FrankenMech is very knowledgeable.
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 9, 2020 4:13:28 GMT -5
Naw, just practical, thanks anyway.  |
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Post by Mech Warrior on Jul 9, 2020 13:17:09 GMT -5
Sometimes its nice to hear there are no issues.
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Post by captainahab on Jul 16, 2020 14:04:29 GMT -5
Welp, I'm not quite sure where to jump into the fray on this awesome forum but since this category is already started I'm going to pick here. If I'm wrong, I appreciate any guidance on where better to post this.
I have 2 49cc scooters I've recently purchased. Neither one is getting spark. One is a 2009 Schwinn Laguna 50. The other is a Kymco Agility 50. I should start by saying that I'm generally pretty handy with 2 stroke and 4 stroke power equipment. One of my great joys in life is finding trash day throw outs, getting them running and selling them for a quick buck on Marketplace. It amazes me why people will throw stuff away. All that being said, most of the stuff I work on has almost zero electrical on it other than maybe a kill switch. So I firmly believe that the issue with both of these is electrical. I'm completely new to cheap Chinese scooters.
Things I've already tried on both scooters, with a battery charger giving me solid 12V:
Checking all fuses I can find
Checking Voltage from Positive to ground
Checking resistance on starter coils
Checking starter solenoids
Replacing CDI's with new one
Examining stators to make sure nothing has blown up
Attempting to get pick up coils as close to the magnet on the flywheel as possible (but finding there's really very little adjustability on either)
Clean pickup and magnet on both scoots
I've purchased a replacement starter coil/spark plug cable (which tests good for resistance), spark plug, and CDI as I mentioned. I've tried swapping out all of these components on both scoots and am still not getting a spark. Because I'm such a noob, I wasn't aware at first that the kickstand had to be up, but now all start attempts are done on the center stand, key on, right brake lever held (and can hear switch engaging).
The Schwinn starter button isn't working, so I've got to short across the solenoid to get it to turn over. About 50% of the time, the Bendix doesn't seem to engage (I've already had the left casing open, lubricated the Bendix, and replaced the starter) but I can get the flywheel to spin. The starter button on the Kymco works fine but the Bendix seems to have the same issue, about 50% of the time it doesn't seem to be able to overcome the spring tension to spin fast enough to engage the gear teeth. I just let off and try again and it usually goes.
SOOOOO....all that being said, hoping someone out there might take mercy on a total scoot newb and recommend some other things to try. Has anyone attempted purchasing a complete replacement wire harness and just replacing everything? What other obvious things am I missing?!
And lastly, thanks everyone who contributes to such a great forum. I wish you all happy scooting!
CA
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Post by mikehailwood on Jul 16, 2020 14:26:08 GMT -5
Do you have a known good battery?
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Post by captainahab on Jul 16, 2020 14:32:03 GMT -5
Do you have a known good battery? Hey mikehailwood: I do, should I be using that instead of the charger? (duh?) Lol |
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Post by tortoise2 on Jul 16, 2020 15:02:27 GMT -5
I have 2 49cc scooters I've recently purchased. Neither one is getting spark. One is a 2009 Schwinn Laguna 50. The other is a Kymco Agility 50. Different ignition systems? |
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Post by captainahab on Jul 16, 2020 15:30:30 GMT -5
I have 2 49cc scooters I've recently purchased. Neither one is getting spark. One is a 2009 Schwinn Laguna 50. The other is a Kymco Agility 50. "Different ignition systems?"Hi Tortoise2, you're 100% correct. So...now what? Lets assume worst case scenario and that amongst the 3 CDI's I have (1 from old Schwinn, 1 from old Kymco, 1 new one (DC)) that there isn't a good one. It's likely I fried the new one so I'll order a new one of each style. Assuming that doesn't work, got any other ideas? I did just attach a new battery to the Schwinn and still not getting spark... |
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Post by Mech Warrior on Jul 16, 2020 18:34:32 GMT -5
Make sure you have good solid grounds.That can cause your'e issue.
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Post by captainahab on Jul 16, 2020 19:32:18 GMT -5
Hey MW, thanks for the feedback. Can you expound on that a bit? Ie; how does one go about testing grounds? I assume each of the critical items (CDI, starter coil, solenoid, stator, etc) all need to be grounded. How do you recommend checking each one off the list? Thanks in advance for your help!
Cap'n A
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Post by Mech Warrior on Jul 16, 2020 23:48:58 GMT -5
Well It's pretty self explanatory follow ground wires and check for fray splits etc.Make sure all ground wire and bolts grounding out items to frame are all nice and tight.
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 19, 2020 8:14:38 GMT -5
The Bendix will get shy when it does not have enough acceleration applied by the starter motor gear/armature. That happens and the motor just spins, without 'throwing' the Bendix out to engage the crank gear teeth.
The Bendix depends on the acceleration to spin fast quickly enough to have the gear stay still while the shaft spins, causing the gear to ride up the ramp and engage. Amps, and good clean connections.
The starter relay has two connections, power and ground. Power likely comes from the brake light power, ignition ON, and lever(either) pulled. No brake light==no relay if all else is good. The ground is likely provided by the starter button. You can check the V and Ground using a test light and touching the terminals along with the battery "+" or "-" terminals .. while holding the button or lever as needed...
The ignition switch grounds the CDI output signal when in OFF on AC CDIs, generally all except the SYM and Kymco brands(AFAIK) which are from Taiwan. Their CDIs are more expensive and larger. If you poke around you can find the pinout and connections that should let you rewire any to any, as long as they are proper AC or DC.
The DC CDIs need battery voltage, so their ignition switches provide juice, kind of like the brake light circuit provides for the starter relay. On an AC system, you can unplug the ignition switch and the engine can run. Disconnect a DC system, and you'll have no spark. You can check for voltage at the proper pin on the CDI ignition OFF and ON. If no volts, you won't get sparky.
tom
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Post by Mech Warrior on Jul 19, 2020 9:08:13 GMT -5
^Thats my boy. Somebody give that man a cigar.  |
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