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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 3, 2020 17:08:02 GMT -5
Go back to stock and make one mod at a time. Adjust to that mod before you make another. Otherwise you are chasing too many variables.
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 3, 2020 18:33:31 GMT -5
Did you do sharpie test on the variator? Before dropping roller weight, you should ensure you're getting full travel to the top of the variator. It's also worth measuring the belt width and making sure it hasn't worn. I have not done the sharpie test as of yet. That’s my next step for CVT tuning. As for the belt width I Havnt measured it but it looks in good condition. The scooter only has about 300 miles on it since I replaced the motor. Is it possible the belt went to junk already? I keep telling my self it should be fine. But at this point I’ve replaced every major component on this Chinese pile of junk. LOL
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 3, 2020 18:36:11 GMT -5
Go back to stock and make one mod at a time. Adjust to that mod before you make another. Otherwise you are chasing too many variables. Okay tomorrow I will find a black stock Cdi box. I’ll try and located the original air box. And I’ll put all the original weights back in. And re tune the carb accordingly. I no longer have the stock exhaust so I can’t put that back on nor do I think it’s decreasing performance.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Jul 4, 2020 11:14:25 GMT -5
Go back to stock and make one mod at a time. Adjust to that mod before you make another. Otherwise you are chasing too many variables. Okay tomorrow I will find a black stock Cdi box. I’ll try and located the original air box. And I’ll put all the original weights back in. And re tune the carb accordingly. I no longer have the stock exhaust so I can’t put that back on nor do I think it’s decreasing performance. I agree with Franken here. I threw a bunch of stuff at my 150, and now im trying to account for all of it in tuning and its a clusterfuck. As for the belt being bad, my cousins Chinese ATV has about 3 inches chain slack from the factory instructions, and is starting to rust already. Chinese manufactures just wanna get their shit out the door, there's no quality control. Im leaning towards trying to do too much at once to a new engine and being a little off on tuning. I can't recall if you said you changed the oil out before you ran the motor, but if you're running the break in oil that ships on the motor, that may be contributing. That stuffs clear, smells like finger nail polish remover, and is just an overall mystery liquid
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jul 4, 2020 12:03:22 GMT -5
The reason for going back to 'stock' on most components is that you should be able to reproduce former levels of performance. Once you get that level, you can make ONE change at a time to the other gizmos you want to replace, and if there is a HIT on performance, you know what step to UNDO. The orange bits are not so good, the CDI being no better than stock, and possibly worse in that it supposedly advances spark timing from low rpms on up, while the stock CDI advances timing as rpms go up. That can make the engine hard to start and want to kick-back. Heavier weights on a variator will cause it to 'overpower' the torque spring, and force 'upshift' in the gear ratio sooner than lower weight springs. If you want peppier acceleration, you'd go to lighter springs, which would be 'weaker' and not push so much to 'upshift' the CVT. More or less. If your belt is too short, it won't allow the CVT to work properly. The low won't be so low, and the high will not be as high as possible. If the belt is too short, it will be too tight also. You the belt should be able to touch the center of the variator(shaft). tom
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 4, 2020 23:04:18 GMT -5
Okay tomorrow I will find a black stock Cdi box. I’ll try and located the original air box. And I’ll put all the original weights back in. And re tune the carb accordingly. I no longer have the stock exhaust so I can’t put that back on nor do I think it’s decreasing performance. I agree with Franken here. I threw a bunch of stuff at my 150, and now im trying to account for all of it in tuning and its a clusterfuck. As for the belt being bad, my cousins Chinese ATV has about 3 inches chain slack from the factory instructions, and is starting to rust already. Chinese manufactures just wanna get their shit out the door, there's no quality control. Im leaning towards trying to do too much at once to a new engine and being a little off on tuning. I can't recall if you said you changed the oil out before you ran the motor, but if you're running the break in oil that ships on the motor, that may be contributing. That stuffs clear, smells like finger nail polish remover, and is just an overall mystery liquid I see where your coming from! I’ll have to dial the scooter back and slowly tune each upgrade as i continue on. And your saying there is a possibility my CVT belt could be bad from the factory? I know China doesn’t have much if any quality control on these little GY6s. And YES the first thing I did was get rid of that mystery liquid oil! LOL
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 4, 2020 23:06:27 GMT -5
The reason for going back to 'stock' on most components is that you should be able to reproduce former levels of performance. Once you get that level, you can make ONE change at a time to the other gizmos you want to replace, and if there is a HIT on performance, you know what step to UNDO. The orange bits are not so good, the CDI being no better than stock, and possibly worse in that it supposedly advances spark timing from low rpms on up, while the stock CDI advances timing as rpms go up. That can make the engine hard to start and want to kick-back. Heavier weights on a variator will cause it to 'overpower' the torque spring, and force 'upshift' in the gear ratio sooner than lower weight springs. If you want peppier acceleration, you'd go to lighter springs, which would be 'weaker' and not push so much to 'upshift' the CVT. More or less. If your belt is too short, it won't allow the CVT to work properly. The low won't be so low, and the high will not be as high as possible. If the belt is too short, it will be too tight also. You the belt should be able to touch the center of the variator(shaft). tom
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 4, 2020 23:15:21 GMT -5
The reason for going back to 'stock' on most components is that you should be able to reproduce former levels of performance. Once you get that level, you can make ONE change at a time to the other gizmos you want to replace, and if there is a HIT on performance, you know what step to UNDO. The orange bits are not so good, the CDI being no better than stock, and possibly worse in that it supposedly advances spark timing from low rpms on up, while the stock CDI advances timing as rpms go up. That can make the engine hard to start and want to kick-back. Heavier weights on a variator will cause it to 'overpower' the torque spring, and force 'upshift' in the gear ratio sooner than lower weight springs. If you want peppier acceleration, you'd go to lighter springs, which would be 'weaker' and not push so much to 'upshift' the CVT. More or less. If your belt is too short, it won't allow the CVT to work properly. The low won't be so low, and the high will not be as high as possible. If the belt is too short, it will be too tight also. You the belt should be able to touch the center of the variator(shaft). tom Okay I love the input and help here! I didn’t get a chance to revert everything back to stock today as I was busy with family for the 4th. Tomorrow I will swap back to a black Cdi box...I have at least 8 black CDIs so hoping those may help. Next I will put all the stock roller weights back..and do a sharpie test.(i will take photos of outcome after sharpie test with all original rollers.) Clutch has been replaced back to stock. I was not able to find my air box so I have to run the cold air intake and high flow exhaust. But I will put the roller weights back to normal and located a black CDI. My belt should be too short? It’s the original belt that came new with the motor. (I’ll get belt part # when I pull CVT apart.) it is a Long case as it has the 12inch wheels. I still believe I’m running rich using a 90main for the intake / exhaust. It still bogs after being wide open and coming back into the throttle. I’ll do CDI test first. CVT testing second. Then lastly throw a smaller main jet in I’m guessing around 84-86main. We have lots of hills an elevations. How necessary or when do I need to move the needle clip location? Thanks everyone 👍🏻
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Jul 5, 2020 0:42:10 GMT -5
The reason for going back to 'stock' on most components is that you should be able to reproduce former levels of performance. Once you get that level, you can make ONE change at a time to the other gizmos you want to replace, and if there is a HIT on performance, you know what step to UNDO. The orange bits are not so good, the CDI being no better than stock, and possibly worse in that it supposedly advances spark timing from low rpms on up, while the stock CDI advances timing as rpms go up. That can make the engine hard to start and want to kick-back. Heavier weights on a variator will cause it to 'overpower' the torque spring, and force 'upshift' in the gear ratio sooner than lower weight springs. If you want peppier acceleration, you'd go to lighter springs, which would be 'weaker' and not push so much to 'upshift' the CVT. More or less. If your belt is too short, it won't allow the CVT to work properly. The low won't be so low, and the high will not be as high as possible. If the belt is too short, it will be too tight also. You the belt should be able to touch the center of the variator(shaft). tom Okay I love the input and help here! I didn’t get a chance to revert everything back to stock today as I was busy with family for the 4th. Tomorrow I will swap back to a black Cdi box...I have at least 8 black CDIs so hoping those may help. Next I will put all the stock roller weights back..and do a sharpie test.(i will take photos of outcome after sharpie test with all original rollers.) Clutch has been replaced back to stock. I was not able to find my air box so I have to run the cold air intake and high flow exhaust. But I will put the roller weights back to normal and located a black CDI. My belt should be too short? It’s the original belt that came new with the motor. (I’ll get belt part # when I pull CVT apart.) it is a Long case as it has the 12inch wheels. I still believe I’m running rich using a 90main for the intake / exhaust. It still bogs after being wide open and coming back into the throttle. I’ll do CDI test first. CVT testing second. Then lastly throw a smaller main jet in I’m guessing around 84-86main. We have lots of hills an elevations. How necessary or when do I need to move the needle clip location? Thanks everyone 👍🏻 Well, pretty much, it's a midrange tuner. If it runs like it has no power, or its popping and falling on its face every once in a while, its rich, so move the clip up on the needle. If it runs really rough, spitting non stop or really hollow sounding, its lean, move the clip down. I would keep going leaner until it starts running bad, then go to the two clip positions before it ran lean and dial it in
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 5, 2020 2:21:00 GMT -5
The carb will be the problem for tuning. If you no longer have the stock restrictive airbox. The carb will be running lean without the airbox. With a pod filter I recommend buying a 'performance' carb and tuning that rather than a 'stock replacement' carb to try and tune to a pod filter. Check out the videos on carb tuning here.
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 5, 2020 9:51:12 GMT -5
The carb will be the problem for tuning. If you no longer have the stock restrictive airbox. The carb will be running lean without the airbox. With a pod filter I recommend buying a 'performance' carb and tuning that rather than a 'stock replacement' carb to try and tune to a pod filter. Check out the videos on carb tuning here. I bought a performance carb off of amazon 18mm that was suppose to come with larger jets. But when I opened the carb up the jets were literally the same size as the stock carb I had prior. Where is a good place to buy proper aftermarket replacement carb? I can’t get the carb I have now to work with better jetting? What blows my mind is my buddy with the TaoTao VIP 50cc he also has a pod filter and the boot that holds it to the carb has a major tear. He’s been using a rag on it as we ride an it’s still faster then my Zummer all around. How does that make sense? How is he able to have more speed all around with the same filter with a big tear in the boot before it attached to the carb. I’m going to keep playing with Jetting and CVT till I figure this out. It’s really frustrating. I’ve poured over 250$ in parts into not counting the motor.
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Post by zummerrunner on Jul 5, 2020 9:55:27 GMT -5
Okay I love the input and help here! I didn’t get a chance to revert everything back to stock today as I was busy with family for the 4th. Tomorrow I will swap back to a black Cdi box...I have at least 8 black CDIs so hoping those may help. Next I will put all the stock roller weights back..and do a sharpie test.(i will take photos of outcome after sharpie test with all original rollers.) Clutch has been replaced back to stock. I was not able to find my air box so I have to run the cold air intake and high flow exhaust. But I will put the roller weights back to normal and located a black CDI. My belt should be too short? It’s the original belt that came new with the motor. (I’ll get belt part # when I pull CVT apart.) it is a Long case as it has the 12inch wheels. I still believe I’m running rich using a 90main for the intake / exhaust. It still bogs after being wide open and coming back into the throttle. I’ll do CDI test first. CVT testing second. Then lastly throw a smaller main jet in I’m guessing around 84-86main. We have lots of hills an elevations. How necessary or when do I need to move the needle clip location? Thanks everyone 👍🏻 Well, pretty much, it's a midrange tuner. If it runs like it has no power, or its popping and falling on its face every once in a while, its rich, so move the clip up on the needle. If it runs really rough, spitting non stop or really hollow sounding, its lean, move the clip down. I would keep going leaner until it starts running bad, then go to the two clip positions before it ran lean and dial it in I get a partial break up when coming back into throttle after cruising and I also get a slight bog when I initially pin the the throttle it will choke for a split second then take off. My pipe was turning gold coming from the header and i believe that was a sign of being to lean. So after I noticed the pipe turning gold I went from a 78 main jet to the 94. Now I’m currently at a 90 main and it’s a little better but I believe some where in the mid 80s is the sweet spot. From there id have to play with the the needle and clip height.
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Post by CrankingWithCG on Jul 6, 2020 2:13:38 GMT -5
Well, pretty much, it's a midrange tuner. If it runs like it has no power, or its popping and falling on its face every once in a while, its rich, so move the clip up on the needle. If it runs really rough, spitting non stop or really hollow sounding, its lean, move the clip down. I would keep going leaner until it starts running bad, then go to the two clip positions before it ran lean and dial it in I get a partial break up when coming back into throttle after cruising and I also get a slight bog when I initially pin the the throttle it will choke for a split second then take off. My pipe was turning gold coming from the header and i believe that was a sign of being to lean. So after I noticed the pipe turning gold I went from a 78 main jet to the 94. Now I’m currently at a 90 main and it’s a little better but I believe some where in the mid 80s is the sweet spot. From there id have to play with the the needle and clip height. Im actually having the exact same problem on my 155 build. My plug was black, so that may be too rich on the needle. Mines to the extent that if i dont rev the motor before launching, i can hold the throttle from a standstill and itll just chug and die
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