|
Post by scootzr on Dec 1, 2020 19:09:24 GMT -5
Hi, I found a good deal on my scooter in my area, (1988 Honda Elite 50), and was wondering if I can build this engine (AF05) to go 60mph comfortably, and maybe even 70mph max, without blowing up the engine. I know the af16 engine is usually better to build, but I want to work with what I have. My budget is $400-$500. Please let me know what parts id need if I can make this achievable. Any help is really appreciated, Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by aeroxbud on Dec 1, 2020 19:40:56 GMT -5
It's probably a big ask on your budget. It cost me probably $900 to get my Aerox to about 70mph ten years ago. Those skinny wheels, poor brakes, and suspension will also need upgrading, for that speed. You will be looking at $200, for a cylinder. Same for a pipe. Carb, reeds, gears, crank, bearings, seals, variator. It soon adds up.
|
|
|
Post by scootzr on Dec 1, 2020 19:49:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by CrankingWithCG on Dec 1, 2020 22:31:15 GMT -5
Im in the same boat man. I found a 93, and my theoretical kit sits around 800 bucks. The only pipe i can find that 100% seemingly fits the af05 is the Technigas silent pro from scootertuning.ca
My top speed would be around 50-55, but thats probably with gears too id imagine. I wouldnt wanna go faster on drum brakes with those tiny stock wheels. The elite is more a cruiser/have fun bike than a speedy one, more so the af05. You wanna go fast as hell, maybe look at a zuma or jog. Those seem better to me for robustness, and the jog stock for stock whoops an elite all day
|
|
|
Post by scootzr on Dec 2, 2020 0:44:28 GMT -5
Ah ok. I cant find any prebugs or jogs in my area though (Seattle) hahaha. If anyone reading this is from Seattle, let me know and ill buy one. Also what is a reasonable price to pay for a Zuma or a Jog. Ive never even seen them for sale so id have no idea.
|
|
|
Post by CrankingWithCG on Dec 2, 2020 1:37:45 GMT -5
Honestly about the same as an af16 elite. Maybe around 1000 for a typical one. You could maybe build an af05 to go 70 with tall gears maybe within your budget, but youre 100% killing all acceleration. If youre light, with a bit shorter gears you may scream to 60 while still taking off hard. Im 190, so me lard is killing me speed for sure 😂. Keep updated on how it goes man, im intetested
|
|
|
Post by scootzr on Dec 2, 2020 2:47:26 GMT -5
K haha. Im 15 and 120, so I might be able to go faster, but I definitely dont wanna use too short of a gear ratio. Maybe a 70cc big bore kit with a manifold adapter for a 23mm carb would work well, that way I can gear it a little higher but will compensate for low end acceleration and torque.
|
|
|
Post by aeroxbud on Dec 2, 2020 6:14:51 GMT -5
The Malossi kit you linked to will probably give you the biggest bang for money spent. Then a good expansion chamber exhaust next. A good variator might give you 3-5mph more top end. But make a big difference to how well the power is controlled.
|
|
|
Post by CrankingWithCG on Dec 2, 2020 6:56:57 GMT -5
The Malossi kit you linked to will probably give you the biggest bang for money spent. Then a good expansion chamber exhaust next. A good variator might give you 3-5mph more top end. But make a big difference to how well the power is controlled. I honestly cant find a good expansion pipe. Unless the af16 pipes bolt up right, its either shitty ebay pipe that may run good or the holy Tecnigas. Fml 😂
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Dec 2, 2020 13:36:09 GMT -5
I know variators can get you 5-9mph faster but I dont know if that is the best option. Variators being good for 5-9MPH on a mostly stock 49cc is largely a sales pitch IMO. I'm not saying they can't provide performance increases, but 5-9MPH on an unrestricted 49cc would be HUGE. They tend to be horsepower limited more than CVT limited in stock form, so if I were looking for big gains on a budget, I would start with a big bore kit or exhaust. Both (and probably more) are going to be needed to do 60MPH reliably. I don't know a lot about the Honda engines, so others here are better qualified to help you with what's best for that particular engine.
|
|
|
Post by 90GTVert on Dec 2, 2020 13:59:23 GMT -5
Also, I guess you're a bit apart, but Scooter Swap Shop is in Portland IIRC. They're a very well known shop so they could be a good resource for you. If nothing else, I think they host some rides/events in the area that could be fun to check out if COVID ever calms down.
|
|
|
Post by jbjhillbilly on Dec 2, 2020 17:35:29 GMT -5
harleyracer59 has a goodly amount of experience with AF05 motors. But I agree that an AF16 or pre-Bug is way easier to source parts for, and I would start with ScooterSwapShop and Partsforscooters both have great selections.
|
|
|
Post by Lucass2T on Dec 3, 2020 8:00:54 GMT -5
AF05 is Honda Aero/Vision and Peugeot ST50/Rapido? Those have tiny tiny ports which make it difficult to flow a lot of air (=power). 60 is doable I think, my Af05 Vision did 50 with nothing but a cast iron Polini, some really tall gears, minor porting, stock pipe (with large head pipe tho), stock carb and stock variator. I recon you can hit 60 when adding nice proportioned chamber, bigger (17,5mm) carb and sports variator.
|
|
|
Post by harleyracer59 on Dec 4, 2020 2:23:06 GMT -5
i see you say youre looking at an 88 elite. is it a sb or a sa? sa has a trailing link fork like the dio elites and the 85-87 aero and the 87 elite S. the sb has a spree front fork. basic telescopic. the sb also has an af05e spree engine and is non variated.(slow) the sa elite has the variated af05e like the 87 and second generation aero. (can be fast) 70mph is a huge shoe to fill for the af05e. 60mph is a lot to ask from an af05e, but it can be done. the malossi kit is a sport kit not a race kit. its good for 50-55ish. if youre looking for 60+ you need to source a euro race cylinder, like the pinasco, zeta racing or the italkit W port. an airsal might do it. but the polini wont and the malossi would be hard pressed to maybe get to 60. but barely. and not without a lot of work. stuffy cranks and expansion chambers are rare but can still be found in europe. like lucass2t mentioned searching for peugeot rapido, st50 or honda vision or kymco dj x 50. they all ran the variated af05e. 500$ doesnt go far in the performance world though. that will get you a cylinder, an exhaust, a variator, an intake, and maybe a name brand knock off carb. thatll get you real close to that 60mph mark. a gy6 50cc performance rear pulley (larger diameter than the stock af05e pulley) a good clutch. a wider belt and and 90/90 or 3.50 rear tire will get you over the 60mph for sure. gears are scarce most are way too low, and take off will suck. there are 87 elite s gears but theyre hard to find as well being only made 1 year 33+ years ago.... you are forgetting a real important thing with all this go fast performance stuff. thats brakes.. itys cool flying around at 50+ mph. it really sucks when you cant stop for shit and run into something... youre gonna need better brakes. either a 110mm drum or a disc front brake and better rear shoes. the dio will do 60+ but your looking at $300+ for a stock engine. a cylinder and a pipe will be more than 200$ for sure. but all that will get you around 60mph. but you still need brakes... long story short. 500$ might get you there but it wont stop you once you get there. And to answer your original question, yes you can make a variated af05e fast. a non variated af05e- no. also, let us know which elite it is, sb or sa? have fun, stay safe, stay healthy!
|
|
|
Post by repherence2 on Dec 10, 2020 17:08:17 GMT -5
K haha. Im 15 and 120, so I might be able to go faster, but I definitely dont wanna use too short of a gear ratio. Maybe a 70cc big bore kit with a manifold adapter for a 23mm carb would work well, that way I can gear it a little higher but will compensate for low end acceleration and torque. What is your intent for the scoot? Are you targeting a specific speed? Are you looking for daily reliability? Are you building a weekend racer? Most of the guys in the Hawaii honda seen will toss out the af05 in favor of the af16. Here on Oahu, there are the Polini guys running the infamous "bomb proof" Corsa mated to a PG (phongeer) long pipe. Some Polini guys will also run the Corsa/Contessa with a taiwan mini stroker crank. The full stroker guys run 50, 52, 54mm Taiwan bores on 45mm cranks mated to Scooter Alley Scorpion pipes. I built an af16 copy with an MHR replica mated to an Arrow chamber pipe but haven't installed/tested it. It depends on you budget and taste. Simple cheap setup could be a Polini Contessa (advertised locally here on Craigslist for $180) and mate that up with a PG short pipe or YMS v8 sectional. Some shops here on oahu used to sell 50mm Taiwanese bores for stock stroke. It all depends on how nuuuuuts you want to get.
|
|