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Post by davidn88 on May 29, 2021 16:20:27 GMT -5
My old fella, is having a hard time, because is lacking compression and I guess it's time to show her some love. Honestly I've been addicted to the 2T since I was a kid, and never made a project before because this Zip actually was my first 2T motorcycle/scooter. So, considering that I use it for different purposes when the weather allows it, I don't consider going balls deep with this, because I want this to be fast, but reliable. Already made some researches and I've a setup in mind and I'll share with you. Feel free to give any tips so we can have a brainstorm here. -Top Performances Black Trophy 70cc (Street6 MKII Sport Pro would be so nice, but I guess isn't reliable as the Black Trophy, even considering that would give me a lot more performance?) -Dellorto 19 -Yasuni R -Doppler Sport Race Crankshaft -Malossi reinforced bearings and seals -Jet ? -Malossi Red clutch springs -Malossi purple torque spring Considering the above list, what are your thoughts about it? It will ride fast, realiable and will make power wheelies?  I know that I could go for a Aluminum Kit, because they are faster and have higher rev's, but I'm afraid that they don't last as much as an Iron Cast kit. Well, that's it lads. Cheers, David |
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Post by Zino on May 29, 2021 16:50:43 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum
Those Piaggio Zips are nice scoots .
Kit and pipe
You picked a winning combo
Yasuni R paired Top Performance Trophy
Basically Doubles your horsepower and adds Speed up Top .
You most likely push past 10,000 rpms .
Cast Iron Reliability is a good choice over higher revving higher maintanance single ring aluminum.
Transmission
Your pipe kit Combo has a wide power band that starts higher and hits with more power
You will need lighter weights and Stiffer clutch Springs to accomodate the power band .
At least a gram lighter weights than you run now .
The Malossi Reds clutch springs should have you very close for good take off in the power band .
Torque spring
malossi white , possibly green or the stock spring paired with the malossi spring seat gets you in the right range
You want the lightest spring that doesn't let the belt slip.
The stiffer torque springs purple ,blue are more for racing and cause alot of belt wear.
Jetting
With the Air Box
Buy a range of jets 80-95 range
Start big and work your way down
Avoid the temptation of Open filter they are a pain to tune and very sensitive to weather changes
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Post by davidn88 on May 29, 2021 17:54:58 GMT -5
First I was about to buy the Malossi Sport 70cc kit, but a friend of mine told me that these Black Trophy kits have some extra spicy, because the piston is 1mm wider and has aluminum head. I guess it can go at least for 9 to 10hp with the 19mm Carb, right?
About the carb itself, there are many 19mm models on Dellort. BS, BD and DS, which I should pick? I will do the mixing, and it would be nice to have Start, but won't be the end of the world if it doesn't happen.
The transmission is where I have more doubts, because it could be very trick to find the sweet spot without going crazy on money for that.
The thing I know, is that the rollers will be about 4.5/5 gram, right?
Well, so far as I know, the red ones, are stiff, but not the stiffest, combining with the band power of the BBK and the pipe, am I right? If this goes right, it won't be necessary to upgrade the clutch itself.
The torque spring probably will be the last thing to upgrade, don't you think? But considering the build, what would be your choice between White or Green spring? The belt itself has some mileage, and I will replace it for a new one, so I'd pleased if you can suggest one.
I won't be using open filter, but I'd like to replace the stock air case, just because is way big, but I've bought a new air filter just a couple weeks ago, so I don't know if it will be necessary to buy a Red Malossi sponge.
Many thanks for your help Zino.
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Post by aeroxbud on May 29, 2021 18:01:16 GMT -5
Sounds like a good build.
Zino has summed it up pretty good. I would try the Malossi yellow clutch springs first. They engage around 6,000 RPM, and work well with most expansion chamber pipes.
The zip is very low geared, so might want to add a gear kit later. The zip is different to the rest of the Piaggio scooters primary gear is 14 teeth, not 13 like most. So make you sure they are for the Zip.
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Post by davidn88 on May 29, 2021 18:19:30 GMT -5
Sounds like a good build. Zino has summed it up pretty good. I would try the Malossi yellow clutch springs first. They engage around 6,000 RPM, and work well with most expansion chamber pipes. The zip is very low geared, so might want to add a gear kit later. The zip is different to the rest of the Piaggio scooters primary gear is 14 teeth, not 13 like most. So make you sure they are for the Zip. So in your opinion, the Red springs are for higher rpm kits, and the yellow ones are for these Iron Cast, which have less Rpm band, am I right? Well, whats the gear ratio of this model? I thought this build would fit in the stock gear ratio. Let's see what happens. |
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Post by aeroxbud on May 30, 2021 4:23:54 GMT -5
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Post by Zino on May 30, 2021 8:51:16 GMT -5
Aerox is right red clutch springs may be more than you need ,yellow may be just enough I run yellows . For Torque Spring I run the malossi white with the malossi torque controller. only upgrade the torque spring if you have belt slip . When you change the torque spring stiffer it takes heavier variator weights to over come it and get same shift points. As far as carb choice if you have the stock 17.5 mm dellorto for a build in your class that works very well . www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/yamaha-aerox-carb-comparison |
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Post by davidn88 on May 30, 2021 9:41:12 GMT -5
Hmmm, that's why mine just go for 60km/h and the engine is screaming like it's going to blow up!  Looks like I need to dig a bit more on the transmission, because there are so many combos and options that I dont know what I should go for. But so far, I only need to go for white clutch springs, and upgrade the torque spring if I need to. |
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Post by davidn88 on May 30, 2021 9:47:32 GMT -5
Aerox is right red clutch springs may be more than you need ,yellow may be just enough I run yellows . For Torque Spring I run the malossi white with the malossi torque controller. only upgrade the torque spring if you have belt slip . When you change the torque spring stiffer it takes heavier variator weights to over come it and get same shift points. As far as carb choice if you have the stock 17.5 mm dellorto for a build in your class that works very well . www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/yamaha-aerox-carb-comparisonWell, I don't want to have massive torque and low top speed, so I guess that way to go is to have lighter rollers, and then adjust with a proper torque spring. Is that correct? About the carb, the 17.5mm was my first choice, but the 19mm could allow me to upgrade the kit in the future, and probably having lower temperatures on the header, do you agree? I saw that post from PedParts, but I don't know if this Black Trophy isn't a bit more powerful than the Polini, which could ask for a bit more of juice/air for a proper run. The 17.5 would be your choice? |
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Post by Zino on May 30, 2021 10:44:30 GMT -5
In the Sport Class 70cc
Malossi,Polini Contessa ,Top Performance Trophy ,Stage 6 cast ,Naraku
are all so close in performance as far as Peak Rpms and Horse power .
The demands on the supporting parts Carb ,Transmission,and Crank is very similar .
A Yasuni R and a 17.5 mm Carb does bridge to the next Class which is the Mid Race Cylinders.
both the 17.5 and 19mm properly jetted does feed and cool your 70cc much better .
The main job of a Torque Driver for a daily rider is to prevent belt slip.
A couple of my Sport Builds I have not up upgraded torque spring at all just ran lighter rollers so I was in the power band .
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Post by Zino on May 30, 2021 11:11:32 GMT -5
Following the rule of changing as little as possible and testing and verifying . So to be not chasing too many tuning gremlins along the way. If I was to start from the Ground Up and needed to swap the Crank . I would swap in the Crank . make sure the crank spins freely . Then I would swap on the 70 cc kit . prssure test for air leaks . Tune the stock carb a notch richer if needed . Run it with stock exhaust for a few Tanks of Gas Notice the power difference and see if you have belt slip . The Stock Trans settings with just a 70 cc up grade should be close using the same weights and stock clutch springs A lot of Guys stop here or just add a stealthy street pipe like a gianelli go,malossi wild lion ,stage 6 street ,tecnigas silent pro they give better take off for wheelie power and a little more top end speed. Anyone of these pipes runs real good with stock up jetted carb ,stock trans settings or just slightly lighter weights and a medium strength clutch springs like the malossi yellows. Now if you want Speed First with a loud and proud pipe The Yasuni R will require a range of weights to dial in peak power and medium (yellow) or heavy (red)clutch springs. A Carb Upgrade to 17.5 or 19mm  For even more Speed Gears and then you will need to rebalance the trans again with lighter weights so you have the same shift points . |
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Post by davidn88 on May 30, 2021 12:21:09 GMT -5
In the Sport Class 70cc Malossi,Polini Contessa ,Top Performance Trophy ,Stage 6 cast ,Naraku are all so close in performance as far as Peak Rpms and Horse power . The demands on the supporting parts Carb ,Transmission,and Crank is very similar . A Yasuni R and a 17.5 mm Carb does bridge to the next Class which is the Mid Race Cylinders. both the 17.5 and 19mm properly jetted does feed and cool your 70cc much better . The main job of a Torque Driver for a daily rider is to prevent belt slip. A couple of my Sport Builds I have not up upgraded torque spring at all just ran lighter rollers so I was in the power band . Oh ok, I thought that the little upgraded piston head on the Black Trophy, would make a bit of a diff. Considering both carbs, what's the main advantage of the 19 against the 17.5? I'm asking just because the Pedparts article, when the performance output with both carbs where pretty much the same. |
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Post by davidn88 on May 30, 2021 12:27:43 GMT -5
Following the rule of changing as little as possible and testing and verifying . So to be not chasing too many tuning gremlins along the way. If I was to start from the Ground Up and needed to swap the Crank . I would swap in the Crank . make sure the crank spins freely . Then I would swap on the 70 cc kit . prssure test for air leaks . Tune the stock carb a notch richer if needed . Run it with stock exhaust for a few Tanks of Gas Notice the power difference and see if you have belt slip . The Stock Trans settings with just a 70 cc up grade should be close using the same weights and stock clutch springs A lot of Guys stop here or just add a stealthy street pipe like a gianelli go,malossi wild lion ,stage 6 street ,tecnigas silent pro they give better take off for wheelie power and a little more top end speed. Anyone of these pipes runs real good with stock up jetted carb ,stock trans settings or just slightly lighter weights and a medium strength clutch springs like the malossi yellows. Now if you want Speed First with a loud and proud pipe The Yasuni R will require a range of weights to dial in peak power and medium (yellow) or heavy (red)clutch springs. A Carb Upgrade to 17.5 or 19mm For even more Speed Gears and then you will need to rebalance the trans again with lighter weights so you have the same shift points . That would be awesome, but I got no skill or knowledge to build this, or either I have a friend who does, so it's kind of hard to try and upgrade or downgrade. That's what this thread is all about. Brainstorm what could work on properly, buy all the stuff and leave the scooter with some mechanic that has the skill on these kind of 2T builds. |
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Post by davidn88 on May 30, 2021 13:09:13 GMT -5
Zino do you think that a Aluminum kit like the MKII Sport Pro or the Airsal T6 could fit on this build or it will need a lot of changes on parts list?
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Post by Zino on May 30, 2021 13:33:52 GMT -5
Stick with Cast Iron 70 cc kit .
If I was only to do one thing for upgrading it would be a cast iron 70 cc kit .
More Power from Top to Bottom extremely reliable guys have put 10-15,000 kms on that Trophy Kit and other Cast Iron Kits .
You may already have all the Carb you need for a sport build ,The Stock Zip to my knowledge is a 17.5 dellorto.
Not a big Advantage to replace that Carb with your current upgrade plan .
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