br4inl3ss
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 461
Location: Québec
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Post by br4inl3ss on Jul 24, 2021 23:12:32 GMT -5
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Post by scooter7878 on Jul 25, 2021 0:59:33 GMT -5
I'm assuming u are using correct bulbs um not sure what the voltage should be at the headlight I'd offer to check mine but it does same thing I've never bothered to look at it bc I really don't care if it's dim at idle they do get bright off idle I'm assuming u checked the charge voltage at the stator wire that charges the battery I guess it's possible the deciated circuit in the stator could be bad but still output good on the charge wire I've never really done much stator checking. And I'm a auto mechanic and as for the crank sensors not working I've seen that so many times and if I had to guess it was a dodge ram or at least some type Chrysler vehicle lol I learned a long time ago get them from dealer it works the first one all the time
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 25, 2021 3:47:21 GMT -5
First of all the headlights on most 50-150cc scoots run on DC from the stator and the SHUNT regulator (a special regulator that clips the positive voltage and shunts the negative voltage from the stator to ground). It really is 14VDC no matter what your easily confused digital meter tells you. A good analog voltmeter set to DC voltage will show a true reading. The voltage can be low at idle but comes up to 14VDC when the engine speeds up. NEVER run both the high and low beam lights at the same time. NEVER run the scoot without a headlight operating, it will overheat the regulator and destroy it, except in some older scoots with a load resistor wired into the headlight switch. The tail and stop light run off the battery which should also be 14VDC when fully charged. Do NOT try to "convert all that crap to DC", leave it alone. The regulator system works ~OK even though it is a cheap and crappy design.
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Post by steve1297 on Jul 25, 2021 6:03:06 GMT -5
First of all the headlights on most 50-150cc scoots run on DC from the stator and the SHUNT regulator (a special regulator that clips the positive voltage and shunts the negative voltage from the stator to ground). It really is 14VDC no matter what your easily confused digital meter tells you. A good analog voltmeter set to DC voltage will show a true reading. The voltage can be low at idle but comes up to 14VDC when the engine speeds up. NEVER run both the high and low beam lights at the same time. NEVER run the scoot without a headlight operating, it will overheat the regulator and destroy it, except in some older scoots with a load resistor wired into the headlight switch. The tail and stop light run off the battery which should also be 14VDC when fully charged. Do NOT try to "convert all that crap to DC", leave it alone. The regulator system works ~OK even though it is a cheap and crappy design. The headlights in almost all 139qmb and GY6 run off AC voltage off the yellow stator wore. 100%. Only the brake lights and blinkers run on DC switched from the ignition. This is fact, and I know it as fact. The problem you are having is that your stator does not produce enough current(wattage) to run those lights. You need to convert to an 11 pole stator, and convert your lights to DC. Or, you can put them on a switch off the battery to pass inspection, but they will drain your battery,fast, so you need the larger stator ASAP. You will just need the 7 wire regulator, and run an extra 2 wires from the stator to the regulator. I can show you what to order, and tell you how to wire it. |
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 25, 2021 7:36:48 GMT -5
First of all the headlights on most 50-150cc scoots run on DC -snip- The headlights in almost all 139qmb and GY6 run off AC voltage off the yellow stator wore. 100%. Only the brake lights and blinkers run on DC switched from the ignition. This is fact, and I know it as fact. (BULLSHIT)The problem you are having is that your stator does not produce enough current(wattage) to run those lights. You need to convert to an 11 pole stator, and convert your lights to DC. Or, you can put them on a switch off the battery to pass inspection, but they will drain your battery,fast, so you need the larger stator ASAP. You will just need the 7 wire regulator, and run an extra 2 wires from the stator to the regulator. I can show you what to order, and tell you how to wire it. That AC headlight voltage is a myth, not a fact at all perpetuated by mostly well meaning internet users. The stator without the regulator will produce AC but the addition of the shunt regulator into the circuit produces a DC voltage supply for the battery and headlights. The headlight power supply is a strange ragged waveform but the overall effect is DC at approximately 14V. This is an absolute fact and I know it is a fact because I am an engineer and have used those shunt regulators on cheap designs in the past. DO NOT believe the easily confused pea brains in digital voltmeters and do not believe you are an instant electrical engineer because you own one. The addition of a capacitor across the 'headlight voltage circuit will smooth out those ripples from the ragged waveform and show the result as a DC voltage at about 14V even with a digital meter. Have a look at the circuitry inside the regulator. Please do not perpetuate a myth told by uneducated scooter owners.
There are methods to convert the system to DC using the 11 pole stators many larger and more expensive scoots use them. There are even ways to convert the standard OEM stators to a form that will support using a 6 or 7 wire full rectifier/regulator but it has proven too difficult for most users to understand and accomplish. For most users it is best to just use the standard system and keep it running with stock parts. There are also aftermarket regulators that supposedly work. I have not checked the internal circuits in them or the system requirements, they are poorly documented.
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br4inl3ss
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 461
Location: Québec
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Post by br4inl3ss on Jul 25, 2021 12:02:35 GMT -5
FrankenMech
you are wrong its not a myth. most chinese scooter headlight are on AC and blinker on DC. even some model of yamaha and kawasaki bike work this way.
ive got it confirmed by 3 repair shop last week.
for others
cant i just put a 11 pole similar to mine without changing anything else ? or just replacing it with the same exact part ?
i want it STOCK for the inspection. they're very picky for stupid thing here. dead brake pads pass inspection , but if its missing a single bulb in the cluster you're fucked.
thanks for your help
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 25, 2021 14:47:10 GMT -5
 I am not wrong. It is a myth and the repair shops are just as guilty as many other scoot users for perpetuating it. Most scooter repair technicians are not electrical engineers or even trained electrical technicians. They just believe whatever their meter says. The headlights are DC. Put a 1000uF 35V capacitor across the headlight circuit and the headlight power miraculously shows as DC even to most cheap digital meters. I don't know what the minimum capacitor value is, I just had a drawer full of the 1000uF 35V parts for computer repairs. I was just as confused as most scoot users when during my initial PDI my own digital meter showed strange inconsistent AC voltage readings. The voltage shown seems to be a function of whatever chipset the digital VOM uses. I tried several meters. I got out my trusty analog meters and lo and behold they showed 14VDC. I then checked the circuitry inside the regulator and identified the shunt regulator. I verified the strange waveform with my oscilloscope. After all, the stator is an AC generator. The shunt regulator just changes the output waveform. People will believe anything if it is repeated enough times on the internet, even those that are vaccine hesitant. The 11 pole will require wiring harness changes and a new regulator. I will be using an 11 pole when I swap in my 150cc engine. I can wire a scoot in my sleep, they are very simple machines.
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br4inl3ss
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 461
Location: Québec
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Post by br4inl3ss on Jul 25, 2021 15:55:05 GMT -5
stop spreading your false information , troll. PELASE. headlight are running AC not DC. most chiness scooter and also some model of known japan bike ( kawasaki for exemple ) use the same exact system. the yellow wire ( regulated AC ) is used for front main light ( headlight ). its extremly simple. what runs on the battery ( horn, flasher, brake light, ignition switch and so on ) are DC. the rest ( headlight, charging system , and so on ) are AC. what ever you invent , it is how it is. the over voltage is sent to ground this is a fact and verifiable. the regulator rectifier is a 2-in-1 unit ( a regulator and a rectifier ). it transform ac in dv , and also regulate it to a specific voltage ( around 14v normally ) not ALL the output are rectified to DC. its easy to see with a wiring diagram. the red wire is rectified ( DC ) and goes to the battery. the yellow wire goes to the headlight. its regulated not rectified ( AC ) i will beleive what a 800$ CAD automotive multimiter tells me and wiring diagram for rectifiers way before a random that proove he know nothing about what he is talking about. so instead of spreading your nosense and WRONG words, help or dont even reply. buy yeah. YOU are right and all manufacturers and everyone else is wrong. www.homemade-circuits.com/understanding-motorcycle-voltage/ |
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claydoh
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 172
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Post by claydoh on Jul 25, 2021 16:00:21 GMT -5
Sort of off topic and out of curiosity, if the headlight output is DC, what component in this system causes LED headlight bulbs to flicker at low engine speed (and thus lower voltage, I assume)? I am sure it is something basic I am missing.
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Post by snaker on Jul 25, 2021 16:16:30 GMT -5
FrankenMech you are wrong its not a myth. most chinese scooter headlight are on AC and blinker on DC. even some model of yamaha and kawasaki bike work this way. ive got it confirmed by 3 repair shop last week. for others cant i just put a 11 pole similar to mine without changing anything else ? or just replacing it with the same exact part ? i want it STOCK for the inspection. they're very picky for stupid thing here. dead brake pads pass inspection , but if its missing a single bulb in the cluster you're fucked. thanks for your help ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There really isn't much of a change you can do without making a project of it. The biggest thing to remember is that the stator and the RR have to match. If your setup is the dual circuit, you have to reconfigure the DC (charging) and the AC (headlite) to a one circuit DC, thats the minimum. People usually run a relay control circuit through the existing switches and power wires with the lite power going through the relay plus a fuse. A wise move because the existing wires, terminal contacts maybe maxed out. Then you pick the amount of upgrade. A small upgrade is easier than a large upgrade. A full on 11 pole, 3 phase, will require a different flywheel, wires, RR, connectors And it may not even bolt on the mount. I think the best bet is to upgrade to the next step for the least headache. That will add some additional capacity, not a huge amount. But keep in mind you don't have a lot of hp to work with and generating electricity does take power. My portable generator was 5000 watt, 6500 peak and it had a 10 hp briggs just to do that, couldn't ride it anywhere. Look on this site for the "floating the ground projects" |
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Post by steve1297 on Jul 25, 2021 16:50:29 GMT -5
FrankenMech you are wrong its not a myth. most chinese scooter headlight are on AC and blinker on DC. even some model of yamaha and kawasaki bike work this way. ive got it confirmed by 3 repair shop last week. for others cant i just put a 11 pole similar to mine without changing anything else ? or just replacing it with the same exact part ? i want it STOCK for the inspection. they're very picky for stupid thing here. dead brake pads pass inspection , but if its missing a single bulb in the cluster you're fucked. thanks for your help We're going to agree to disagree, as the headlight power comes before the regulator, between the stator and regulator. You are free to believe as you wish |
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 25, 2021 18:07:24 GMT -5
Lets see, a new user with three posts and a sub average IQ from his posting language, and is an idiotic internet believer. Me, a user with 6989 posts at this forum alone with an advanced education that has been designing industrial machines, aerospace equipment, electrical controls, microprocessors, computers, etc for 40 years..... I am sure I could call repair shops also and talk to uneducated mechanics also. The only thing I try to do is help and educate people after retiring. I am sorry but my various meters, lab equipment, oscilloscopes, various other instruments, advanced education, and years of experience vastly outweigh and far exceed the value of a $800 'automotive' meter of dubious value. Do any of you know what a shunt regulator is and does? It shunts/shorts excess voltage to ground and almost all the negative side of the waveform to ground in this application. Go back and look at the regulator circuit IF you can read it (doubtful). There is a semi-rectifier for the battery circuit because the battery works better with a rectifier, that side of the electrical system is extremely current limited. The headlights are connected to the regulator and stator and is not rectified, most of the excess power is dissipated as heat. Try the capacitor and see what the headlight voltage reads. There are several ways to change AC into DC and rectifiers are not always required.
Snaker has a fair idea of how things work. It does not matter where the headlights are connected. The regulator is in circuit.
Low voltage causes the headlights to flicker at idle. Stator output voltage varies with speed.
I am not arguing with a moron newbie any more. Others are more deserving of help.
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Post by steve1297 on Jul 25, 2021 19:01:18 GMT -5
For an 11 pole, you have to change the regulator and run 2 new wires from the stator to the regulator. You cut the existing yellow wire off at the stator and hook it up to the battery for your lights
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Post by captincvmn on Jul 25, 2021 19:44:04 GMT -5
I’m just gonna back out the doorway and quietly close the door.
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Post by snaker on Jul 25, 2021 19:55:15 GMT -5
FrankenMech your being rude.
Take your meds and go lay down.
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I am not wrong. It is a myth and the repair shops are just as guilty as many other scoot users for perpetuating it. Most scooter repair technicians are not electrical engineers or even trained electrical technicians. They just believe whatever their meter says.
