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Post by dahermit on May 31, 2022 18:24:03 GMT -5
2014 tao Tao VIP Future Champion 49cc, bought not running.
I have got it running, but having problems with acceleration... have to push with my feet to get it to accelerate. I took the CTV cover off, and cleaned and inspected the Variator and Clutch. The Variator needed one of those small plastic slides.
I disassembled, inspected for wear (no apparent wear) cleaned and lubed the Clutch pulley, reassembled it. I have a new belt.
The current problem is that I cannot collapse the clutch pulley enough to get the new belt on (belt has the same numbers as the one that was on the scooter. I have watched the Youtube videos on changing the belt and they seem to have no problem pulling the outermost side of the clutch pulley towards the bell housing to allow the belt to drop down in the pulley to give it enough slack to go on the Variator end. I just can not get it to move more than slightly, using both hands, but nowhere near enough to get the belt on.
What is going on? How much resistance is normal for a stock spring? Could a previous owner (I do not have access to former owner) put a very heavy spring in there? What I am certain of is that there was not visible damage to the clutch unit.
I need some knowledgeable input relative to the normal/stock Torque Spring.
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Post by Zino on May 31, 2022 19:39:57 GMT -5
The aftermarket ones are very tough to compress the stock ones .
I find easy enough to compress.
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pili
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 217
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Post by pili on May 31, 2022 19:50:58 GMT -5
Zino is right depending on what spring is in there that would make it much tougher. Note that the slots for pins in the sheave are diagonal so the outer sliding pulley needs to turn clockwise as you compress it. You might also consider disassembling the clutch and making sure the fixed sheave, the inner part of the pulley, is properly lubricated and the slots for the pins aren't murked up with old grease. I recently took mine apart and cleaned and lubed the sheave and noticed right away that the sliding sheave slid more easily. It also improved take off and low speed acceleration.
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Post by dahermit on May 31, 2022 20:28:56 GMT -5
Zino is right depending on what spring is in there that would make it much tougher. Note that the slots for pins in the sheave are diagonal so the outer sliding pulley needs to turn clockwise as you compress it. You might also consider disassembling the clutch and making sure the fixed sheave, the inner part of the pulley, is properly lubricated and the slots for the pins aren't murked up with old grease. I recently took mine apart and cleaned and lubed the sheave and noticed right away that the sliding sheave slid more easily. It also improved take off and low speed acceleration. Thanks for the tip about turning it clockwise. I will give that a try. In regard to the other stuff about pins, as I stated in the O.P., I took it apart, found no damage, clean everything (including the pins and slots), lubed with grease and put it back together. There is no appreciable wear, anywhere. |
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Post by dahermit on May 31, 2022 20:44:56 GMT -5
So, what weight spring do I want for just a standard replacement (not "performance")? 1K, 1.5K, 2K, or 2.5K? I am assuming 1K.
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Post by Zino on May 31, 2022 22:39:13 GMT -5
1 k would be the lightest and would be fine for stock or mild upgrades
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Post by dahermit on Jun 1, 2022 6:22:13 GMT -5
1 k would be the lightest and would be fine for stock or mild upgradesI I ordered a 1k Torque Spring and the three matching 1k Clutch Springs (the current Clutch Springs seemed unduly heavy also). |
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Post by GrumpyUnk on Jun 6, 2022 10:06:32 GMT -5
Heavy(strong) clutch shoe springs, no matter the torque spring, will tend to make the engine rev higher before the clutch engages and starts to move the clutch bell.
Heavy (strong)torque spring will tend to make it harder for the variator to squeeze its sides together and change the pulley ratios to higher gear. IOW, it likely will keep the gear ratio for acceleration rather than top speed. It will 'stay in 1st gear longer'. Using heavier weights in the variator should tend to counter strong torque springs, so it is a see-saw in weights and springs, both of which affect shift curves. Stay in low gear longer or shift to higher gear sooner are the two sides of the see-saw.
It seems the easiest tune method is changing variator weights. There are YT videos and some perhaps on site about variator tuning methods.
I have a new torque spring I have never installed, and likely won't. I have not fiddled with clutch shoe springs either. If the clutch seems to grab at about the right rpm, I ignore it. If the variator seems to 'upshift' at decent speeds, I ignore that also. I think you can tell by the performance if the critter is upshifting late, or early. Stopwatch measures may surprise, as seat of the pants feeling is often contrary to measured performance. I don't have time nor inclination to mess with it much if it seems to work well.
I did have an ATM50-A1 that had a CVT that just worked. But I doubt I could duplicate it with another without a lot of fiddling.
tom
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claydoh
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 172
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Post by claydoh on Jun 6, 2022 10:25:25 GMT -5
I would suggest getting an OEM contra spring, at least for starters. Even a 1000lb spring makes it difficult to get the belt into the pulley, at least for me it did. I believe that these are ~800lbs, for comparison purposes.
It might be worth considering to use mostly OEM spec parts until you get things working reasonably well.
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