Peugeot with I.E. dies on downhill and at traffic light

[imenom]

Hello, everyone. I own a 2019 Peugeot Kisbee 50cc Euro 4 scooter with electronic injection. Unfortunately, there's no one in my city who can maintain Peugeot scooters, so I've had to take care of everything myself. I had misfiring engine or sometimes it would fire but i could hear explosion would be weaker so while replacing the spark plug, I accidentally damaged the spark plug thread.

After getting the head back , I reinstalled the old head gasket, which is made of metal. However, I filled it with oil (idk if it is good or bad). I also did the timing. Since then, I've been struggling to make the scooter run as smoothly as it did before.

I've created a video [1:46] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv1F6GcsZDM) that provides a detailed explanation of what's been happening so that you can better understand the situation.

I attempted to adjust the throttle position sensor and, during my testing, I would consistently clean the oxygen sensor. This allowed me to monitor whether the fuel mixture was running rich or lean. But still the same thing happens everytime, when fuel rich it has better idle but spark plug and ox sensor would be so dirty

I must say that scooter had some random missfires before my attempt to fix it and this scooter has only 8000km. I've been driving the scooter in this condition for almost 100 kilometers, and there doesn't appear to be any oil leakage.

Thanks to everyone who is willing to assist in diagnosing this scooter.

[aeroxbud]

Are you sure the timing is 100% correct? I would always use a new head gasket. If it's leaking, it could be part of the problem.

[imenom]

The thing is that I am not 100% sure if I did it right because it is kind of tricky to get everything aligned with 100% precision. I have tried multiple timings, and this one I have right now seems like the best one. The scooter rides like it did before.



If I find a picture of me setting up the timing, I will send it.



Edit: On the timing gear, there are two holes and two lines (left and right blue circles), and the top blue circle has a 2 mm deep hole. These three holes are not 90 degrees like I drew on the picture, so I could not align these holes with the edge of the case; they would always be 2 mm above the edge of a case. So, I aligned those two lines that are 90 degrees with that top circle, and that is when the lines align with the edge of the case. But it seems kind of cheesy.

this photo was when i was thinking of upgrading to big bore kit and was taking measurements but i guess there is no chance of me getting big bore kit because of injection system and proces of reprograming ecu with 400 euros peugeot tool kit 

[GrumpyUnk]

I agree that a head gasket, especially a metal version, should not be re-used except in emergency. You may have leakage that can damage the surfaces if used enough while leaking. My preference, even though compression is slightly reduced, is to use composition head gaskets with a metal 'fire ring' around the cylinder diameter.
That said, the two circled on the cam sprocket should be aligned such that they are as parallel as you can make them to the top surface of the cylinder head. Pretty sure you can see when they are a tooth off in either direction. Of course the flywheel should be at the mark to insure the piston is at TDC. The timing chain tension mechanism should be removed to allow positioning. I can't say as to the third hole being off from 90 degrees to the other two. Chinese manufacturing may have made a 'new version' of the sprocket, but the third hole position should not matter IF the Peugot manufacturer does not do something 'different' for EFI versions.
OTOH, I suppose you could install a carburetor, a larger sized cylinder/piston, etc, and ignore stuff. You would need spark control, throttle cable, etc. And a low pressure fuel supply(gravity). Ignoring all 'official' language that want to control what you do...
tom

[imenom]

Okay, so I am going to buy a new head gasket. I've seen people in cars apply some glue on these gaskets. What is that glue? Is it a type of silicone to achieve the best possible compression, or something else? Additionally, I noticed a small layer of silicone on the head gasket before i cleaned it.

When I install the new head gasket, do I have to clean everything so there's no oil on the contact surface, or should there be oil on the contact surface for best compression?
this is only head gasket i could find

That said, the two circled on the cam sprocket should be aligned such that they are as parallel as you can make them to the top surface of the cylinder head.

interesting thing is that when i align those two circles with top surface of cylinder head i get poor performance but when i align this red line with top surface of cylinder head it has performance like before (there are 2 lines on cam sprocket i did not draw randomly that red line)

OTOH, I suppose you could install a carburetor, a larger sized cylinder/piston, etc, and ignore stuff. You would need spark control, throttle cable, etc. And a low pressure fuel supply(gravity). Ignoring all 'official' language that want to control

i feel like this is too expensive and time consuming project it would be easier to buy new scooter right?

[GrumpyUnk]

Wow. E9.xx for a head gasket. 139QMB head gaskets run a lot less if ordered from websites such a DaRiver, DaBay and aliexpress. Around a buck US for some. Of course they have gone up...
I do not use any stuff on the gasket or head/block surfaces. I do remove any remnants of the old gasket or sealing if someone previously applied same.
The thought of non-EFI was based on the low cost of the parts. A carburetor does not need much to work, throttle control cable, fuel line to the inlet, and power to the 'byvalve' that enriches startup and fast cold idle. Power being applied only with the engine started and running.
The other parts were for increasing power above the nominal 49cc orignally installed. The Peugot may already have a pickup for the spark timing, and a coil, so either a DC CDI or stator winding & pickup for an AC CDI.
The cam marks mentioned are for 139QMB, or GY6 labeled models. Peugot and you are on your own. I do not have any information for them, don't own one, and have never seen one in person. If the red line alignment works, use it. I know nothing...
tom

[aeroxbud]

Cheaper here www.scooter-attack.com/en
Link won't work, but €2.40
I found trying to buy Peugeot parts on the net hard work. They want you to order from a dealer.

[GrumpyUnk]

If you are located in UK, there's a guy who produces YT videos. He did at least one working on a Peugot. He may have a lead to local sources that are not so proud of their products.
Scooter-attack is in Germany, or Deutschland.
Were I fiddling with this, I would attempt to get it PBT - put back together- and then see what the market would bring. I kind of prefer the more generic style of the China scooters. I am sure there is a dfference in the parts used in manufacture, but the availability and lower cost make them more attractive. When you can buy a big bore complete for 25% of the higher priced brand, you can do a lot more repairs and replacements that you would tend to avoid when the cost per is high. More fun, in a way. IMO. Of course your choice is all your own.
tom

[imenom]

Cheaper here www.scooter-attack.com/en
Link won't work, but €2.40

i have contacted this website if this head gasket would fit because i have 139QMB-J engine so i am not sure

If you are located in UK, there's a guy who produces YT videos. He did at least one working on a Peugot. He may have a lead to local sources that are not so proud of their products.

do you know his name so i can search it on youtube?

My plan with this scooter is to sell it because I already own a bigger scooter. This scooter was intended solely for fun, but it ended up causing big mess. I would never recommend the Peugeot EFI scooter, especially if there is no support available. As I continue to search, I find that support for this scooter is almost non-existent

[aeroxbud]

The gasket on scooter attack fits your bike. If you look at the drop down menu. It lists all models the part fits.
Are you on about the Mark Savage YouTube channel?

[GrumpyUnk]

If you are asking me about Mark Savage channel, I can't really say. It was several years ago. The channel maker did work on a Peugeot scooter and fixed several problems. My thought was that he knew local sources for repair parts. Beyond that, I have no knowledge of UK sources.
tom

[imenom]

i recorded my disassembly of this 139QMB-J engine (https://youtu.be/ugVHFHupIpo)

[imenom]

i finally found service manual for 139QMB-J ( Peugeot kisbee 50cc Euro4 injection scooter ) so i will just drop it here if someone needs it

www.crservice.dk/Peugeot/Service%20manual/MA59_MOTEUR_50CC_T20_INJECTION_V4-04A.pdf

i messed up so many screws because i was overtightening them cuz i used service manual for 139QMB-E

i have heard from authorized service that these engines have problems with valve seats and oil pison rings, i have checked my valves and they were leaking also i have checked my oil piston rings they are 0.35mm clearance and Utilisation limit is 0.4 mm so i will replace all rings and clean my valves so i will update you guys on if that helped my problem

they also told me that it happens from 10k to 15k km (depends how you drive scooter, mine has 8k) i guess i am using it to his full potential

[GrumpyUnk]

If that pic is looking down the exhaust, the appearance looks to me like a pretty well running engine. The inner coating is not black which would indicate a rich mixture, but approaching 'gray' which is good. No evidence of wetness or oil being passed through the exhaust.
If you have gotten to 8k, you must be doing some riding. That approaches 5,000 miles which is a good run on any of these small scooters. With proper care, it will last a good while, but you must remember they are working pretty hard given the displacement. Keeping the oil changes up to date is likely the most important thing one can do to encourage long engine life. Don't let the engine sit without starting for months at a time or it will not work as well. They suffer 'disuse atrophy' very readily.
tom

[imenom]

User manual tells me to change oli from 1500km up to 3000km, i have changed it every 1500km but still i got this fault

oil i used is this one (https://www.outletmoto.com/en/oil-motul-scooter-power-5w40-p-4672.html) i was told that motul oil is the best oil, but i feel like it is not true because mine oil piston rings were worn out, i just replaced them yesterday and scooter is running better, now i am going to clean valves and put new valve seals so i can see difference