2020 ScootTerre Bistro 50 CVT

[Deleted]

*Withdrawn from forum* 

[br4inl3ss]

thanks jjoshua20214.
sadly its not the only one spreading false information. there is a guy i had to block on my day one ehre because he was sreading false bullshit about AC and DC. franken something. whatever. many people suggested be to block him off right away and i did. extremly fast life improvement.

i knew he was BS'ing right when i read "sense".

but anyway ive fixed most issue by installing my parts.

right now its not perfect but can be left alone as is.
finally ill be able to try to make my PHBG work on those engine now that i have a decent engine.

[Deleted]

*Withdrawn from forum* 

[GrumpyUnk]

The contra spring resists the rear pulley spreading apart. It wants to squeeze the two sides towards the center, thus trying to keep the ratio in the 'high gear'reange.
The clutch springs adjust when the friction material on the clutch shoes are able to expand/move on their pivot and contact the I.D. of the clutch bell. WHen they press against the I.D., they start to rotate the clutch bell, and thus the input shaft to the final drive gear box.
Weaker springs(clutch) will allow the engine rpm to be higher before engagement than will stronger clutch springs. They adjust the 'engage' rpm.
The contra spring works to force the gear ratio to go higher(more speed, less engine rpm per speed). The contra should match the output curve of the engine for best performance, raising the final drive ratio as the final drive rpm increases, keeping the engine rpm in the best torque curve spot(close, anyway). Too much contra, and the ratio will be high before it should, as with the speed increased. Too low force from the contra and the engine will possibly be over its torque peak, and at high rpm before the bike gets up to speed.
It is all a balance. The only thing unchangeable, more or less, is the torque curve and engine output.
tom

[90GTVert]

Apr 19, 2024 10:22:28 GMT -5 GrumpyUnk said:

It is all a balance.

All good info in the above post, but the quoted section is why I prefer to call it a "contra" spring... as in contrast. It's a contrasting force to the weights in the variator which terms like torque spring or main spring don't imply. Semantics, but the idea of balance is underestimated by many new to tuning CVTs. I'm not saying that all functions are purely to counteract the roller weights, but it's a big part of the contra spring's duties. The contra spring's duties don't really include engaging the clutch though. It can have affects on engagement and operation, but clutch engagement is largely a function of the clutch springs and clutch RPM.

All of these things can get way more complicated than they ever appear to be on a surface level and would require levels of engineering and physics understanding that I sure don't have. You know... because scooters are easy.

[br4inl3ss]

Apr 18, 2024 21:30:49 GMT -5 @jjoshua20214 said:

Apr 18, 2024 18:39:15 GMT -5 br4inl3ss said:

thanks jjoshua20214.
sadly its not the only one spreading false information. there is a guy i had to block on my day one ehre because he was sreading false bullshit about AC and DC. frankeinstein iirc or whatever. many people suggested be to block him off right away and i did. extremly fast life improvement.

i knew he was BS'ing right when i read "sense".

but anyway ive fixed most issue by installing my parts.

right now its not perfect but can be left alone as is.
finally ill be able to try to make my PHBG work on those engine now that i have a decent engine.

I find it appalling that, people have the audacity to mis-educate others who are genuinely seeking answers.
The WHOLE point of this section of the forum is to educate and seek education.
There is no place for people like them on earth, yet alone this forum.
Imagine if school teachers purposely taught the wrong information. We would have a generation of mis-educated people who continue the mis-education. lol


Anyways, apparently you can rate users. Just figured that out.
You hit plus for a like and minus to remove a like. 
Go figure "snaker" is on the opposing side of the scale. Great username for the personality.
 



There are a bunch of cowards on these forums.

Years ago during my run with the GY6 engine, I frequented scooter forums, and there was always this 1 person by the screen-name"alleyoop" who swore he knew everything just because he was old.
He just so happened to be 1 of the moderators.
He would delete my posts when he disagreed with my logic, or anytime I corrected him. 
He always liked to have the last word, so he would verbally attack me and delete any response. 
He ended up blocking me, which didn't do much because I am computer savvy too and can get around it. 
I eventually got fed up with people like him and snaker and left the forums for good. I went off to start a little "off the records" company selling, upgrading and maintaining scooters. 
Screw the forums, at that point I had emails, texts, and MONEY coming my way.

Long story short.
ONE MONKEY WON'T STOP THE SHOW!

oh yeah been there done that. i'm not rich. borderline broke.

so buying carburetor over and over and over again wasnt my best move. but i had to sicne i had no help ( i had help here, alot of hwelp, but nothing to fix the issue ).

so i went to other forums and discords....EVERY DAMN PERSON int his world vomit on the groudn when they hear "4 stroke", and even worse with "diaphragm carburetor".

so they made me buy yet another carb as a test... same issue.i knew it wasnt the carb, but still possible. most of them were cheap chinese junk ( i know some chinese parts are on par with "quality" brands, but we never know )

i was so done hearing everywhere "get a phbg and be done with carb issue". i knew they were actually the best quality carb but thats it. so i asked if a phbg would work on a damn 4 stroke. YES YES YES. all said YES.

i remembered honda and suzuki having 4 stroke quad with phbg carb from factory probably quality clone tho ( rare but they existed ) so ofcourse phbg do works on 4 stroke.

i spammed the words "4 STROKE" ( because people barely know they exist they're too stubborn with thier 2broke engine ) to make sure they know i'm talking about 4 stroke, to the point i got banned instantly on 3 of them. pathetic fanboy with thier 2broke. you can prefer 2broke or 4 stroke, opinions. but dont go so crazy about them to the point you invent only 2broke works and exist.

so they made me buy an expensive dellortho phbg 19 DS. what a beautifull unit.

but couldnt get it to work on my 139qmb gy6 50cc. then 72cc. then 81cc.

untunable idle, huge bog down on fast acceleration ( be it 1/4 or full throttle, just need to be fast ) to the point engine stall. but extremly precise WOT. i never tought a damn carb could be so like that. they were all right about this fact no doubt.
asked for help since i finally bought the carb they wanted me to buy, most of them didnt answer and other said they didnt know it was for a 4 stroke.. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS ??



so right now i have a collection of 7 damn cvk carb ( cheap like yuansong something nonanme to quality like naraku, and even a returned legit keihin because too expensive for no fix ) and a beautifull PHBG 19mm.

i will try to make it work on this engine because apparently my older engine was impossible to make it run properly in any way. searching the internet = "yes they work on 4 stroke". but 2 person talked about the needs to change the slide cutaway.

no idea what to do and because i'm broke now because they mad eme buy so many carb, this phbg GOTTA FUCKING WORK on it. plain and simple. with absolutly no help because alot of people did it but they cannot be reached out or just refuse to answer.

there is a shop that helped me alot with phbg basic info and jetting, he said he did it over 20 time in 10 years on motorcycle and scooter. but i asked him help so many time he doesnt answer me anymore.

i know it came built for 4 stroke ( AN ) so it make logic they work with 4 stroke, but we never know with italian stuff. they LOVE to change everything without noticing anyone. getting the correct part for some model of scooter motorcycle and car are a real horror story. they change the part without giving it another part number. so yeah never trust italian stuff. so its possible they build it for 4 stroke for whatever reason but cannot work on said 4 stroke engine.


so yeah, those people....... terrible world.

this is the reason i hate 2broke so much today. i didnt like how they dont last long at all, but this shit pushed my hate to the max level. its also the reason i have to control myself every second of my life when trying to get help. i start at 1/4 turn for no real reason. they really pushed me too far.

NEVER get help fron french people fron france. N E V E R. the only answer they all know is "achette un 2 temps les 4 temps c'est de la grosse merde" ( buy a 2 stroke, 4 stroke are big piece of shit ). whatever your question is, they always answer that nosense crap.
once i asked if it was normal my front brake pads use so fast. they asked what scooter it was, i wais chinese scooter with 13qmb, 4 retards answered to buy a 2 stroke. the hell are they saying ?

[br4inl3ss]

i do know its all about balance... but sometime the balance is out of question at first sight because it makes no sense at all.

anyway right now 99% of my cvt related issue are gone. its not perfect, but still better than stock on chinese scooter.
only thing is this damn clutch engage so high..

and maybe a carb issue.

[GrumpyUnk]

Clutch engagement is controlled by centrifugal force making the clutch shoes contact the I.D. of the clutch drum. If the springs are strong, the clutch will wait for higher rpm to start to spin the drum. If the springs are weaker, the clutch will engage at a lower rpm.
Once engaged,the drum spins, and starts to push power to the input gear of the final drive, and rotate the rear wheel.
The balance is between the variator and the contra. Contra as I understand means 'against'. The two pieces more or less push against each other to determine what the drive to driven ratio is at any given moment.
Heavy rollers will push for highe gear ratio sooner than lighter weight rollers.
A strong contra will not allow the variator to spread the sides of the driven pulley apart and thus gain a higher ratio as would weaker.
I had a Taotao that someone 'fixed' and decided it did not need shrouding to cool the engine. It had a few hundred miles on it. The balance the variator/contra had on that CVT was the best I ever experienced. It accelerated well, and matched the output of the engine very well. I sold it. Ha.
There are videos on YT produced by the site proprietor that go through tuning a CVT. Very tiny differences can change the action of the variator/contra. It truly is a balancing act to get it to work and provide good response without a lot of heat.
tom