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Post by oldgeek on Mar 28, 2020 19:43:43 GMT -5
Got gear oil?
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 28, 2020 21:36:20 GMT -5
Got gear oil? Sure do. Put it in as soon as I put the bolts in for the gearbox cover. As soon as I drained the gear oil, I wrote "GEAR OIL!!!" really big on my whiteboard. Thank you.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 29, 2020 12:39:04 GMT -5
I checked 2 weather sites. Both said 2-4MPH winds currently. Went out and flags in town that are pretty big are blowing around. Not 2-4MPH winds. Ran it up to 65 and then let out. I can feel vibrations that were not there with the better supported gears. It's misty and a storm is coming too so I'm just gonna wait for a better day and make it count so I can get these gears out in less miles. Riding in such close succession with the 3rd support and standard gearboxes makes for a clear reminder of why I haven't wanted to go back to these gears. It's not awful... but maybe it is, since I'm fairly confident that the vibration is from the slop in the primary drive shaft.
I can pretty much already tell you that it ain't going much/any faster than before... but I was pretty sure of that in the first place. So far it feels like I have less punch, but the RPM is better controlled (surprise! lol). However I still think HP (or weight reduction) will be the answer to more speed. That's just my guess with a quick ride, but I'll make it official at some point.
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Post by 190mech on Mar 29, 2020 14:48:41 GMT -5
I remember years ago when Robert was drag racing and our 'think tank' agreed that ideal gearing for a higher rev motor was 11 to 1,guess thats proving correct now..Also you mentioned how at max revs its buzzing a lot,,I think its past its max rev/hp level and its in "overrev",thats OK for race applications when you have 200 yards till the finish line,but it ain't doing the motor any good on a daily basis...
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Post by rehabkymco on Mar 29, 2020 16:08:48 GMT -5
Id have to agree with 11:1 being ideal. And im only at the sport level of tuning but after using 10.15:1 and now 11.28:1 the 11:1 is faster accel with basically the same top end(within 3mph) at the same rpms. I believe that you would need to be at 25 hp or more to make 10:1 usable. Unless you have a little Vino or other small tire scoot
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 29, 2020 18:13:49 GMT -5
As John said, a little group of us kinda figured it out a long time ago. I've really liked the 11.2s since I've been running them. Some of YouTube knows I'm wrong though. Had to do it, even though I likely aggravated myself more than enlightened anyone that knew better.
So I did it. The wind died off totally. Flags calm on their poles. Tried a few times. It's only hitting about 13,300 at around 70MPH with the 4.75g sliders. Same RPM as when it did 73MPH with the 11.2:1s. Max speed was 72. It actually seems to pull worse. Obviously YouTube will tell me that I needed to be at 14,500RPM and I did it all wrong. I just don't want to tune with these. They suck.
Acceleration is still not really slow, but it feels different. I don't have a snappy feeling at low speeds now. RPM seems way less confined to a tight range now. It did better keeping near the peak with the deeper gears.
The noise and vibration from the gearbox sucks and I'm ready for these gears to go back on the shelf ASAP.
I did do a couple of 0-50 runs. I haven't loaded the vid, but it slips a lot taking off. Unfortunately, I changed out my clutch too in this process. When I was looking over/cleaning the CVT, I found marks on the rear pulley from clutch contact. Then I wanted to take it apart and grind a few edges. Ended up finding that one of the posts that holds a shoe was loose and the back plate may be mildly warped.
I had 1 more stock modified clutch around so I installed that. Shoe weights were essentially the same. 159g for my old one, 157 for this one. I did put 2000RPM springs in, and I have no idea what springs were in the other. They worked well so I just stuck with them before. If I end up with the 11s back in and the takeoff still sucks, then it may be time to find an aftermarket clutch. I was looking at flat slide carbs, but that will have to wait if I can't take off hard.
EDIT : Oh, and I'm sure the high revs are not healthy. I'm trying to see what it does... and TBH it still makes me happy. I'll be crying when a piston with half a conrod attached smacks me in the leg though.
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Post by Zino on Mar 29, 2020 22:52:30 GMT -5
You Tube is always right Sure As soon as you did 80 mph They would know tell you that you should be doing 90 mph easy .
The exponetial amount of horsepower from 70 mph to 80 mph is crazy . 13500 rpms Thats got to wake the neighbors in the next county.
72 plus Mph verified is top notch tuning .
Sounds Awesome Great Videos . Brent You do Great Work and It is was awesome that you had your Brother as the control
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 30, 2020 8:17:51 GMT -5
The exponetial amount of horsepower from 70 mph to 80 mph is crazy . I was just playing with a calculator the other day related to that, because I think people underestimate the power required for speed. Just plugging in some arbitrary numbers (because I don't know the drag coefficient [used 1] or frontal area [used 8ft] and 450lb for weight since I'm 300 and T2 has to be at least 150), here's an example : 30MPH : 2HP 40MPH : 4HP 50MPH : 7HP 60MPH : 12HP 70MPH : 19HP 80MPH : 28HP 90MPH : 40HP 100MPH : 54HP 9HP between 70 and 80 probably seems like nothing, but I'd like to see most people take a 19HP setup and work it over till they end up at 28HP without totally redoing it. That's about a 40% difference in power. Aside from being fat and being honest, I also have to have more drag than the average rider. T2's front fairing is a scoop and I can't really tuck down that much for the gut. If you add 1 ft to the frontal area, that 70MPH number goes up by 2HP. There are all kinds of reasons why my speeds make sense, but as long as you've seen one person do 100 on a hyper race tuned by the gods with the best parts and nitrous, then everything else considered a hyper race should go at least 80 or 90.
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Post by jloi on Mar 30, 2020 15:15:34 GMT -5
damn right , you should have been to the moon and back by now . WTH?
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 30, 2020 16:59:44 GMT -5
I got curious. Ended up putting the front wheel of T2 on the bathroom scale and the rear wheel on a shipping scale. Looks like ~205lb with 3/4 tank of fuel. So roughly 200-210 with the amount of fuel that I'd usually have in there. About 80 up front, 120 rear. That's 40/60 weight distribution. If the scoot needed no rider, it would be setup well. Put my 300lb mostly on the back and suddenly it's not so great. Put me in gear and you've probably got 520lb worth of scooter and rider.
I also took a bunch of measurements of the front of the scoot to try and figure out a rough frontal area. Looks like 3.44 square feet. That's just the scoot though. I think I take up a lot more. I took pics of the front of the scoot with a measuring tape and then pics from the same POV with me tucked down. At some point I'll see if I can get a wild estimation of the actual frontal area. Probably not all that far off of my initial guess.
I don't know why I care about stuff like this, but for some reason I find it interesting. Still, no way I can come up with an accurate drag coefficient so it's not really useful. I guess at least trying to be close on 2of3 variables is better than 0of3.
One thing that I saw from the measurements is how much different the frontal area of the scoot itself could be if it weren't so high. I like it up in the air so it's good to ride day to day, but if I were after all out speed and performance, I could probably knock off nearly a square foot of frontal area with a lowrider. That's in an area where the rider is irrelevant, basically hiding the lower frame and such behind the wheel and suspension. That's like having 2 more HP if you're trying to make 70MPH based on the stats from a previous post.
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Post by Zino on Mar 30, 2020 17:44:29 GMT -5
The exponetial amount of horsepower from 70 mph to 80 mph is crazy . I was just playing with a calculator the other day related to that, because I think people underestimate the power required for speed. Just plugging in some arbitrary numbers (because I don't know the drag coefficient [used 1] or frontal area [used 8ft] and 450lb for weight since I'm 300 and T2 has to be at least 150), here's an example : 30MPH : 2HP 40MPH : 4HP 50MPH : 7HP 60MPH : 12HP 70MPH : 19HP 80MPH : 28HP 90MPH : 40HP 100MPH : 54HP 9HP between 70 and 80 probably seems like nothing, but I'd like to see most people take a 19HP setup and work it over till they end up at 28HP without totally redoing it. That's about a 40% difference in power. Aside from being fat and being honest, I also have to have more drag than the average rider. T2's front fairing is a scoop and I can't really tuck down that much for the gut. If you add 1 ft to the frontal area, that 70MPH number goes up by 2HP. There are all kinds of reasons why my speeds make sense, but as long as you've seen one person do 100 on a hyper race tuned by the gods with the best parts and nitrous, then everything else considered a hyper race should go at least 80 or 90. I ran that calculator with a bunch of different numbers for drag ,weight ,etc in the past . A go to rule at least 50 % more horsepower To just less than a double for each 10 mph gets me close . It is awesome how your Brain Works you just dig an dig for solutions .
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 30, 2020 22:21:55 GMT -5
I sat here with a grid on a picture using known measurements of scoot parts to figure out the frontal area of the scoot and I combined. Turned out to be about 8sqft. The same thing I guessed. So basically I spent a very long time to end up with the same numbers I already had. I guessed low on the weight of the scoot, but that 50lb didn't change much. 0.1HP @ 70MPH. Oh well. At least I know I'm about as accurate as you can expect some dummy in his garage to end up. It's not really about finding a solution. More like trying to verify what I think and pass along good info without a lot of holes in it. I've always envied the parts salesmen to some degree. You can make claims with little backing and you actually make a living.
BOLO for something new from me in the coming weeks. I call them Wind Suckers. It's a space age plastic covering (grocery bags) for your hands. The turbulence from the flapping of the bags placed on each hand creates a low pressure zone in front of the scooter. It's like a vacuum sucking you up to speed. Buy 2 and get 1 Free HP kit. It's a box full of nothing. Eat that for long enough and acceleration and speed are sure to improve.
*DISCLAIMER : I'm not responsible for death, injury, property damage, speeding tickets, sexual harassment suits (that you'll surely have to file against much of the opposite sex after they see your Wind Suckers), or random parachute accidents.*
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 2, 2020 23:28:06 GMT -5
The top speed/gearing/power requirements video is up : youtu.be/At6Q1i5TcMsBasically unrelated notes... Finally broke 40,000 subscribers. Only took me 14 years. lol (40,099 ATM) I'm guessing advertising must be down on YT because of the current situation. Views are up 16% vs last month. Watch time up 13%. Revenue down 11%. Luckily for me, 11% of not much is next to nothing.
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Post by Kenho21 on Apr 2, 2020 23:44:18 GMT -5
Dude watching you wrestle your dog with the pneumatic tools has to be one of the best things I've seen in your videos. Not quite sure why, but cracks me up. I'm usually more of a cat video kinda guy haha.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 3, 2020 5:55:02 GMT -5
So much for 40 minutes of video showing the speed and why calming down comments. This is the guy that said I need Yamaha cases for 25% more power and then didn't reply when I asked where the power comes from. I guess from the comment below that it's from gearbox losses. "well, ill be darned.... i guess the transmission loss is greater than i thought on those chinese engines. i only actually have two recommendations for you, try a reveno motorcycle style clutch (seems you might have some slip with the original one) and an original japanese case. to put it into context: on pretty much any of my 70cc high end builds ive geared them to about 90 mph (overgearing it slightly) and topping out to about 80-85 mph and on the 86-100cc builds geared to about 115 mph, that results in about 90-100 mph. and i have played with that exact tpr 86cc kit but on a geared moped, that thing went about 90 mph on a stock transmission. and to be clear, this is only things i recommend.. if youre happy with how it is, thats all good as well, nobody says you have to go fast to have fun on two wheels i have a little honda monkey chinese clone with a 125cc 10 hp engine on it, it is the most entertaining thing to ride, it only goes about 50 mph." I asked what his TPR setup was because it had to be way different somewhere to make roughly double my power and way over what TPR says the kit does. He would have an advantage with a geared moped, but shouldn't be all that much. It seems like a lot of people have really fast setups, but none of them share exactly why/how they were so fast. The ones that do share some info have really high end parts to go way fast, which seems more logical to me.
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