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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 30, 2020 17:23:14 GMT -5
My old adapter bushing thingy for the primary drive shaft to CVT cover bearing was quite thoroughly worn out (ID and OD). I also had someone tell me that rubber sealed bearings would be far superior to the metal shielded bearings that I've always used for this spot. My apologies, but I can't recall if it was a forum member or a YouTube comment at this point. So, I got some SKF rubber sealed bearings and I made up a new aluminum bushing. I also made a couple of spares so it's not always a big task to change it out... at least the next 2 times. I used the HF 20 ton press for the first time to press the bushing into the bearing and that went smoothly. I don't have a lot of hope that it actually lasts much longer, but it's worth a shot. I found that my clutch bell is cracked during my CVT cleaning. I immediately checked to see if ScooterTuning had the Stage6 MKII clutch and bell in stock. That's about the only one I really want to try after the DrPulley incident. Of course not. I just put it back together and asked Wunninairhi (the scooter god of hard launches and wheelies) to overlook this blemish and allow me not to see a clutch bell rapidly turn into shrapnel in person. You can tell how long I've used this bell by the fact that the knurling is barely there anymore. I don't even remember the last time I bought a bell that I actually used much. I also found that my belt still had plenty of wear left in it (just shy of 17mm wide)... but had to replace it because of this. Thankfully, this doesn't happen much with new-ish belts. I did some other maintenance and then got back to the water pump project at hand. Here are the bracket and nut drive adapter mounted after a crappy paint job. New 160XL belt installed. Lock nuts or threadlocker on everything. Here it is mounted in the frame with hoses attached. I used a 90 degree bend for the inlet of the pump as well and a piece of metal tubing to join my existing hose from the radiator to it. I filled it up with coolant and fired it up. I saw no coolant moving in the radiator at first. Uh oh. Luckily, it did manage to prime itself in a minute and start moving coolant and cooling. I revved it up, bounced on the seat to check for clearance and then decided that it was good enough to try it out. I rode for 34+ miles over the course of about an hour and a half. I rode around "normal" at about 40MPH, tried cruising 50-60, romped on it a bit, and rode it around a town for a while. It did OK with all of that. It did heat up in town, but it's about 95 here and the sun was beating down on the asphalt. I saw a max of 144 in town, but then I turned on the fan at one light and it didn't heat up more than a degree (I think 137 to 138) while I sat briefly. Seems like it's more of an airflow issue than coolant flow. Slow cruising is more like 135-ish. Romping on it, I did see it get just over 150... but that seems pretty normal for this much heat and any pump I've ever had. The belt appears to be a bit more slack than it was before my ride. I'd like to think it could be the belt stretching a little and breaking in, but I don't think a timing belt should be stretching much. It's probably not holding tension as well as would be ideal. That said, it never faltered. It still appears to drive the pump just fine as-is. It may take some more riding to be sure if it's an issue or not. My test ride was not a story of glory, but at least it wasn't my usual tale of fail.
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Post by oldgeek on Jul 30, 2020 22:17:31 GMT -5
Works great, looks great, whats left? Ride it! That clutch bell is a bit sketchy though. Motors doing 14K, clutch bell 18-20K ?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 31, 2020 19:18:15 GMT -5
It rained most of the day, but cleared up enough for a ride not long ago. It seems like it has been forever since I've been on a scoot when it's 80F. Nice change from the heat. The scoot likes it too, keeping the coolant mostly between 120-130 for a 36 mile ride. I saw as low (after warm-up) of 118 and max on the gauge was 132.
I tightened the belt back up before I left and it's pretty much back to where it was after the last ride. Now I'm curious to see if it's sort of self-adjusting or if it will continue to lose tension till it slips and/or falls off. Would be nice if it were self-adjusting, but I don't know that I'll get that lucky.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 1, 2020 12:16:37 GMT -5
I don't think I'm gonna be so lucky to have a self-adjusting rig. I rode 66 miles today and the belt got progressively more loose across the ride. I can pretty much touch the belt together in the center now. At the beginning of the ride (slacked from an earlier 36 mile ride) the same thing would have left the belt with about 1/2" gap. Probably closer to 3/4" tightened as I started. I kinda think the 1/2" gap setting that's more loose is a better one than as tight as I adjusted it, so I would have been happy if it just stayed there. It is missing one bolt (top shroud or pump bolt) that was put in with threadlocker. I don't think that's the issue though, because it still couldn't move to loosen like it has with that bolt out. It has to be rotating the pump. I was kinda curious to see how loose it could get and keep going, but I have been using a 2nd GoPro aimed at the pump on my rides and that broke off. Luckily I decided to stop and check it for a totally different reason (thought I nudged it with my foot and just figured the aim was off) and found the mount failing, so I didn't lose a GoPro. The high point of my ride was about 8AM riding in a quiet tourist town where all the folks with Land Rovers and Porsches and such go to relax because there's nothing there. No commotion. Just peaceful little shops and such. ...And then there's me on T2. lol I was turning onto a narrow little side street from a stop sign. Doing about 10,000RPM just to get moving. Some woman is walking with a man and turns to see what's coming up behind them and grabs her chest like she was going to have a heart attack. Lots of staring and odd looks in the morning, like they couldn't believe I had the audacity to bring this screaming turd onto their streets. I love it.
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Post by aeroxbud on Aug 1, 2020 12:47:22 GMT -5
Probably moaned about the smell after you passed too.
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Post by Kenho21 on Aug 1, 2020 23:34:51 GMT -5
When I’m leading on rides through a certain area near me that’s a subdivision full of $5 million+ homes, I always make a point to do a lap with the pack behind me. Gotta get their hearts racing to remind them they’re alive once in a while.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 2, 2020 16:43:56 GMT -5
Do you think its an issue with the belt tension method?Slipping perhaps??Guess a precision measurement somewhere on the pump mounting arc before and after a ride would answer that..I do know a cog belt will slacken slightly with heat,but yours seems like more than that..LOTS of applications run that system very well,it's gotta be something simple...
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 2, 2020 18:37:27 GMT -5
I think the single bolt just isn't enough to hold it. I noticed early on that Larry's pump is right up against the engine. I thought it could be to ensure that it couldn't move. That is why I tried to get the 150 to work, but it just wasn't gonna happen with the bracket I made. I looked at the karts and figured it should be fine if that's how they do it. Like you said earlier though, they just wanna get through a race. No big deal to add belt tension to the pre or post race checklist for them.
It's way loose. It's not the belt. The belt would break well before it could cause the kind of difference I'm seeing.
I need to see if there's a simple way to get something to push up against it or even bolt to the pump flange when it's in position. Not a lot of room back there as-is, but I haven't looked at it much yet. Got caught up on editing instead today. Best guess ATM is maybe use an existing flange bolt or just drill another hole. If I can weld a tab onto the existing bracket that doesn't stop the pump from swiveling, then I could set it where I want tension and drill into that for a bolt. Could even be a pin I suppose. That way I could easily install and remove the belt, but still be able to lock it in position better. Sound OK to me on paper. Now actually trying to drill a hole like that while the pump is installed... not sure about that. Also not sure how much stress that bolt/pin would have to deal with. Hoping it wouldn't be bad since it would have the primary pump bolt taking a lot of the stress.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 3, 2020 0:02:46 GMT -5
I looked at all your bracket pics,looks like a tension bracket(slotted old school alternator tensioner style) from the aft lower M6 bolt mating flange bolt on the pump to an angle bracket on to your forward facing bracket attach bolt at cases may work..Here is a poor drawing,hope you can see what I'm thinking here..
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 3, 2020 15:36:47 GMT -5
I stood around and stared at the pump for a bit today. Couldn't really decide what to do at first. I was going to do a tab in the rear of the bracket using a loner pump flange bolt. Then I took the pump apart and the bolts are just M4. Kinda hated to use some long M4 bolt (~3.9mm major diameter, even less minor diameter) to put any stress on. Decided to make a small tab in the front of the pump for the pump to rest on on the drill through the flange and the tab so it could be pinned or bolted. I screwed that up. I got the tab on the existing bracket. Then I marked where to drill the pump flange after measuring to get it in just the right spot. I didn't see how I'd secure the pump in my little vise on the drill press or any other way easily. Eh. I'll be fine by hand with no center drilling first. Wrong. Started dead center, but the hole didn't end up there. It ended up right up against the pump body. No way to put a pin or bolt there. Luckily I set it up so the pump rests on the bracket anyway, which seems to be what they did with Larry's setup. His was actually resting on the case as far as I can tell. So hopefully the steel bracket doesn't eat the aluminum pump and the hole that I drilled too far inward on the pump doesn't result in a coolant leak. The bracket is drying. Now the weather is gonna suck for a while I think because of the effects of the hurricane, but maybe it won't be too long before I can test ride.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 4, 2020 22:44:48 GMT -5
The tropical storm passed through by the afternoon and it turned into a sunny day. I put a Time-Sert in the mounting hole in the case, where the front of the bracket bolts on. The bolt was missing after the last ride and the threads were bad. Then I mounted the bracket and pump and got it going.
I took a test ride. 45 miles in, I busted a belt. Not the water pump belt though, the drive belt. It was brand new when I serviced the CVT just last week. 182 miles and it's a pile of chords and bumble bee cotton candy. It seems like I have to change belts about every 100-150 miles now or this is bound to happen. I have thought about riding this thing all the way to and from the beach just because, but I don't think it would cooperate. I'd pretty much have to expect that I'd blow one brand new belt. It's one thing to say, "OK, carry a belt and plan and extra 30 minutes to change it". Actually feeling like doing that on a hot day when you're riding all day anyway is another. Even worse is the real world experience of a belt failure. I was riding at 65-70MPH and had just slowed down to about 60. It felt like it was locking up for a second and that's never really fun. Then you don't know what you're gonna get when you pop the CVT cover. If it happens to destroy anything else, you're screwed. I've had them be very hard to get the chords out of the rear pulley on the roadside before and it's frustrating and time consuming. What I'm trying to say is, it's a terrible thing to have as part of a plan and no one really wants to pull over at 100 miles and change a belt either when it probably will appear to be roughly OK at that point.
Anyway, I got that belt changed out with a used belt that I keep under the seat in about 15-20 minutes on the shoulder and headed roughly toward home. The total ride was 63.2 miles. Belt tension was nearly the same when I returned home. The M6 bolt on the front bracket broke off and that allows just a tiny amount of movement, so I can't say tension was right on. The bolt that broke was in the same spot as the one that went missing last time. Everything appears to go together smoothly, but I'm thinking about drilling that hole 1 size larger just to be sure there's no tension on the bracket causing these failures.
The other issue is that the bracket did dig into the pump a little. At this point, it's a non-issue. It will become an issue with more miles though. I'm thinking I need to build a sort of cradle. Basically just a piece to weld onto that additional tab that turns an 1/8" thick edge into maybe a 1/2"-1" thick piece for the pump to sit against.
EDIT : And the pump never leaked out of that hole that I drilled wrong.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2020 16:38:15 GMT -5
Just ordered 4 belts from ScooterTuning. That should get me another 400-600 miles. I would so pay $300 for one belt like the TMAX if it would last 10,000 miles (less than half what's on my TMAX's belt). I got 2 of the belts that I always use (Malossi 6111108) that are 815x17.5. I saw that they also had 820x17.5 Malossi belts (618779) so I got 2 of those as well. I've only tried the 815, but I may be able to make use of 5mm more without negative consequences. I figure it should take the skill of a professional bull rider at launch and finally get that 80-100MPH number that everyone else says they do.
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Post by aeroxbud on Aug 5, 2020 18:08:43 GMT -5
It's a real shame you can't get a belt from one of those maxi scooter to fit. Would save you a fortune. There is so much rubbish talked about on forums/YouTube. I was bored the other day, so was checking out a British forum. The amount of 80-90mph mopeds is crazy! I need to go and work out why I'm not getting 70+ now out of my Polini sport setup.
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Post by Lucass2T on Aug 6, 2020 5:32:50 GMT -5
...and finally get that 80-100MPH number... Sorry to crush your dreams, but you'd need a polini corsa for that
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 6, 2020 8:27:23 GMT -5
I just got the video about making the drive adapter up. It's way late because I initially planned to put the entire process of getting the pump working in 1 video. I've been editing a bit as I go to keep up and break it up so I'm not just sitting in front of the screen 12 hours a day at the end like I used to do. Realized the video was over an hour long, so I decided to separate the adapter part into it's own video. youtu.be/Gebmky5GomA
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