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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 16, 2024 12:43:03 GMT -5
There may still be hope. I switched to a HSS ground bit to knock off the edges of the hex and then went back to carbide.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 16, 2024 18:47:55 GMT -5
Just found these. Just happens to be 20mm like the 6204 I'm using. A little wide, but there may be a mod to my axle nut for one someday. I really like the one on the Piaggio primary shaft. Seems to do it's job well. Not a lot of choices from what I see. Ferrari apparently uses them on something, and they use them on bigger Piaggio/Gilera scoots but those have no size listings. skysportsusa.net/c101b-compensating-ring-20-x-20mm-cosmos-300/
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Post by Lucass2T on Mar 18, 2024 1:16:16 GMT -5
Just found these. Just happens to be 20mm like the 6204 I'm using. A little wide, but there may be a mod to my axle nut for one someday. I really like the one on the Piaggio primary shaft. Seems to do it's job well. Not a lot of choices from what I see. Ferrari apparently uses them on something, and they use them on bigger Piaggio/Gilera scoots but those have no size listings. skysportsusa.net/c101b-compensating-ring-20-x-20mm-cosmos-300/You could give the shop that sells these a call and ask if they can get hold of other sizes?
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 18, 2024 17:09:48 GMT -5
I missed the mark on the fit a bit this time. I was aiming for a 2 thousandths slip fit as John suggested. I wound up with ~0.003” so it slides a little too easily. Good thing I found some 20mm rings the other day. You could give the shop that sells these a call and ask if they can get hold of other sizes? Good idea, but I already ordered 2 of those. Figured it probably wouldn’t matter if they were not totally enclosed within the bearing. I made a couple of .4” spacers for the mounts because I was going to be too close to the wheel and tire otherwise. I got started on the tubing frame. Didn’t get very far. I don’t have a tubing notcher, so I stuck a hole saw in the drill press to make the curve for the mount easier. It does a rough job with the wobble in the setup, but matches well enough after some minor cleanup. Seemed easier to freehand it with a grinder for the rear cut… especially after seeing how much the 2.25” hole saw moved around. Prob gonna TIG this stuff so it’s cleaner and I don’t get spatter all over the wheel and engine trying to tack it up. Also thinking I'll probably have to ditch the MHR exhaust bracket to make it work with the torsen. I looked for bushings like Malossi uses in their bracket for the silencer support. No luck really. Best I can find for a reasonable price is a 20mm OD, 20mm thick, 8mm ID bushing for scoot rear shocks. Those are quite hard usually, so I don't know if that would do the job for vibration damping. I know John also does his own home brew bushing setups with hose and tubing IIRC, but I'll have to look at the Peace Pipe again if I do it that way. I was hoping to have a fixed bushing so it all just bolted on like the MHR though. Getting ahead of myself. I haven't even got the torsen done enough to see how the exhaust may or may not work with it yet. In other news, I talked to ScooterTuning at the end of last week to ask about the C piston that’s been on order for over 2 months. They are gonna ship the rest of my order (ignition and some extra circlips and such) because there’s still no known date for the piston. I ordered a C from GForce Thursday. Emailed them today to check if it was actually in stock or they knew when they could get it and Gary Fallon called me shortly after the email. He checked Malossi directly while I was on the phone and both B and C pistons have no known date so he said they may not even make them for all he knows. He said he’s never even heard of anyone using a C piston. Still makes me wonder how many actually measure. He had a BB in stock which sites don’t even list usually. That’s halfway between B and C, so just 0.005mm smaller than I intended to get. Close enough. They sent that today. If I melt another, I might be in deep do do or going back to an A that never met spec since it was new if I don’t want to get a new kit altogether. I had a 245mm shock and a shorter riser in my cart to help get T2 lower, plus brake pads for the front of the TMAX. Went to order that and now that stuff is gone aside from the brake pads. Shopping elsewhere for a rear shock looks like it will cost me quite a bit more than my discounted price from ScooterTuning, so that kinda sucks. I can still get a riser in a color I don't want I think. Not sure if a shorter riser will do much. I was thinking it would lean me over the bars more to transfer weight even more to the front and make a slightly smaller hole in the air, likely at the expense of a little comfort.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 20, 2024 18:03:49 GMT -5
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Post by 808ministroke on Mar 21, 2024 15:31:36 GMT -5
wow such a nice job so far on the torsen arm. makes me think with help i may be able to fab one for my build. (which just discovered has a crack I'm the case that's basically irreparable so will be a while) I have always thought that there was just touch force for the frame and I think a rear arm would have prevented it from cracking, what do you think?
And I am stoked you picked up that fully programmable iggy as I KNOW you will test out every setting on that thing and give everyone really good data on its benefits or lack there off. I never used my rotor weight assumed it would be used in engines that want to add rotation inertia at the expense of responsiveness can't wait to hear what you find.👍
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 21, 2024 17:53:46 GMT -5
wow such a nice job so far on the torsen arm. makes me think with help i may be able to fab one for my build. (which just discovered has a crack I'm the case that's basically irreparable so will be a while) I have always thought that there was just touch force for the frame and I think a rear arm would have prevented it from cracking, what do you think? Thanks. I have to say it really makes no sense to build one like I am. The cost isn't even that much different with me doing it all myself and it takes a lot of time. I would absolutely see what's available for how much first. I've still got to figure out how to get an exhaust to mount with this too. That looks like it could be a whole new headache since the arm is actually way lower than the pipe I think. Never checked that before I started because it made sense to me to just directly connect the mounts and axle and not worry about anything else at that point. As far as benefit, it sounds like a good idea to me but I've never owned one before. The other thing is to always use the CVT cover with all of the bolts if you want the most reinforcement there.
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Post by Lucass2T on Mar 22, 2024 4:48:16 GMT -5
wow such a nice job so far on the torsen arm. makes me think with help i may be able to fab one for my build. (which just discovered has a crack I'm the case that's basically irreparable so will be a while) I have always thought that there was just touch force for the frame and I think a rear arm would have prevented it from cracking, what do you think? As far as benefit, it sounds like a good idea to me but I've never owned one before. The other thing is to always use the CVT cover with all of the bolts if you want the most reinforcement there. Yeah leaving out cvt bolt is quite dangerous. Luckily the minarelli long engines have beefy cases. The minarelli short ones on the other hand are thin. My former employer from back when I used to work as a scooter mechanic built this MX Gilera Ice with a Gilera DNA engine (piaggio long case). He time and time again destroyed the gearbox due to flexing of the axle. Since it was a very fast bike he took the jumps with quite some speed which put tremendous stress on the gearbox with each landing. He had to switch to a torsen arm in the end. Not sure if that solved the problem entirely but I think it did put a little more life in the gearbox.
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Post by aeroxbud on Mar 22, 2024 6:09:37 GMT -5
This was one of the first Piaggio engines snapping I heard about. The rear wheel hubnut came undone and pushed against the tsab and the engine snapped! 😲
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 22, 2024 13:28:00 GMT -5
I brought the BB piston and my mic in the house to give them a few hours to warm up to room temp (was 29F outside and ~40 in the garage). I measured 15 times and got 2.0449" 11 times and 2.0448 inches 4 times, so I'll call it 2.0449" / 51.940mm. The C was 2.045" / 51.943mm by my measurement so it's not exactly right for the 0.005mm change that it should be, but .003mm is pretty close and I think it's really between 2.0448 and 2.0449" anyway. Doesn't really matter. This is just for my own desire to be accurate if I can. The difference is pretty trivial considering actual clearance.
So, when I was on the phone with G-Force he asked if I had seen their suggested clearance specs because Malossi can be grannies is how it was put. Malossi says 0.048-0.056mm and GForce says 0.045-0.055mm. Not exactly much different. Anyway, he was saying this since using a C piston was unheard of to him. My clearance with the BB runs from 0.069-0.077mm. The piston is still too small technically. With a C it would have been 0.066-0.074mm... still out of spec. A D should be .01mm larger than a C, and I think that's the largest made. That would put me at 0.056-0.064mm... just barely managing to sneak in within Malossi's spec on one end and not within G-Force's at all.
I still think what makes my clearances allegedly the oddball is that I measure somewhat regularly and I actually put 3,000 miles on the RC-One in a year and a half. That's barely riding it in my book, but it seems like not many do that much with them or switch out the whole kit before then. It still ran strong so I'm trying to avoid the trash can if possible, with my only doubt at this point being due to wear in one area from the piston fail and aluminum removal.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 23, 2024 16:34:54 GMT -5
I got the top end back together. Went to finish it off with a leak test and forgot that I broke my tester’s gauge the last time I tried to use it. I use the air compressor to test and normally I turn it way down. Didn’t do that once and the gauge is stuck at 13psi. New one is on the way. Then things got complicated. The MHR exhaust runs into the torsen. It hits the bottom of the bottom mount part and then runs into the bottom leg. It could work, but the pipe sits a lot farther out than normal. It looks like i can either let the pipe sit out or I’d have to cut the torsen up. The front support would have to move as far forward as I could get it. Then the bottom leg would have to be partially cut out and a new piece would have to be to triangulate somehow so most of the front lower section was out of the way. The pipe will have to sit a little farther out regardless, because of the bearing. Not sure if I wanna chop it up or leave it. I may tick it back in the scoot enough to see how bad it looks. Just buy a torsen unless you’re really good at this stuff…. or at least leave it tacked till you work everything out. LOL
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 25, 2024 16:16:04 GMT -5
I was checking things out, realizing that the best I was gonna do without a total do-over to angle everything up in front than back down to the bearing would be around 1/4” more inward. That would be something like 5/8” at the very back of the stinger. Am I really gonna go through a bunch of trouble for that? That’s silly. Oh. I guess I am. I ground a flat on the lower mount, moved the forward support as far forward as I could without hitting the ignition cover, and then made a piece to fill the gap. BTW, the guys gave me this TIG 2-3 years ago and I literally just learned that you can tack with TIG without a big hassle. LOL Last time I was trying to clamp and tape and use filler. This time I just turned the amps up to about double and hit it. Life changing for the first tack of each piece when they’re hard to clamp in place. Does it look a lot different from the top pic? Not really. Have to do actual welds and then add at least a cross brace and then still do something to allow the pipe to mount.
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Post by 808ministroke on Mar 25, 2024 16:55:07 GMT -5
This was one of the first Piaggio engines snapping I heard about. The rear wheel hubnut came undone and pushed against the tsab and the engine snapped! 😲 I was talking with a buddy of mine and I think snapping the engine completely on a Dino run would be the perfect way for My current engine case to go out with a bang, Plus I would get at least hopefully one pool and get numbers for where it is at so I have a baseline to compare any further changes to my next engine case against, I'm not aware of any Dino set up for mopeds in Hawaii but I'm assuming you should be able to use any Dino for a moped as long as it has the] tree to hold the front wheel if anybody knows of any dinosaurs that can do this in Hawaii shout out to me because I am willing to pay for a run if that doesn't PAN outhinking about just doing a burnout until it cracks it will be good click bait anyways LOL.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 26, 2024 16:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by aeroxbud on Mar 27, 2024 6:15:39 GMT -5
Might not be pretty. But it looks pretty strong.👍
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