sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 360
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Post by sinfull on Apr 5, 2024 18:44:34 GMT -5
18 volt recharge cordless battery packs, ryobi makita, etc, 12 voltage step down regulator. Simple wiring for light and rechargeable after a ride. They even sell em together on Amazon. 12 volt step down transformer or similar search
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 360
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Post by sinfull on Apr 5, 2024 18:46:36 GMT -5
18 to 12 volt converter, search that and it should give you the correct results
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 360
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Post by sinfull on Apr 5, 2024 18:57:12 GMT -5
Oh, and Trent on mopboys is running sane setup on his f12 lc with mhr. Very compact and take very little room in the bucket if you want to get ideas. 😀
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 5, 2024 19:28:59 GMT -5
I'll have to look into it. I'll need hours worth charge to handle the water pump and between 8-28W of lighting (depending what I can get away with in different conditions). The cordless batts seem too small for that, but again I'll take a look because I assume if you step down from 18 or more volts to 12V that the 12V Ah would be more than what it's rated at 18V or more. They're also quite expensive.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 6, 2024 6:13:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure if the math is correct or not, but I saw someone saying to think of the batteries in watt hours instead of amp hours.
So an 18V 8Ah battery would have 144 watt hours (V x Ah). If you use 12V to provide 144Wh it would be 12Ah. So I guess an 18V 8Ah cordless battery could provide the rough equivalent of a 12V 12Ah battery, but step down efficiency would change that. From what I saw in a very brief look, step down transformers can be very efficient or not depending on the quality of parts used in them. It sounds like 80-99% would be a rough range, maybe worse for really bad products. If I take 80% of 144Wh, that would be 115.2Wh. That would make it more like a 9.6Ah battery at 12V. If the converter was exceptional at 99% efficiency, then it would barely change to 142.6Wh or 11.88Ah at 12V.
Not sure if all of that is totally correct. The other consideration I'd think would be to consider something made well so it doesn't fail under vibration on a scoot. Vibration isolation may be possible with mounting, but it would still be good to have a well made part. I'm gonna have to look at my Milwaukee M18 batteries and see if I'd get lucky enough that they'd fit my existing battery box. That would be very nice. A step down would have to be mounted somewhere else though I'm pretty sure. If I could pick up a big M18, like a 12Ah, that could be a pretty substantial power source or I have 2 8Ah and 2 5Ah already so carrying spares may work fine. I already carry a 5Ah in the impact driver under the seat (whenever I don't forget to bring it).
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sinfull
Scoot Enthusiast
Posts: 360
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Post by sinfull on Apr 6, 2024 13:21:38 GMT -5
Can always do practical testing, my preference. Use what you have available and run the water pump on cycle in say 5 gallon bucket. If it lasts more than 8 hrs you are good to go. I would aim for 8 hrs just because I don't know anyone that can do 8hrs constant on a scooter. Bike won't be running constantly 8 hrs even if you are gone 8 hours. Add in 2 led headlight bulbs and you should get a approximate time per battery.
Your current battery and setup may be able to handle it.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 6, 2024 17:53:47 GMT -5
I don't know anyone that can do 8hrs constant on a scooter. Hi. My name is Brent. Now you know someone. lol Not so much lately, but I have done many days around 8-12 hours and some 16-20 hours. The older I get and the faster T2 gets, the less likely those days are. I do regularly spend an hour or two on it locally and then it can be many hours at the beach for car shows sometimes. I should be going back to TN this year, so I wanna be able to ride without worry. I have a feeling 2 18V 8 Ah batteries would go a long way. I'm definitely not buying more batteries till I try with what I have. The hookups are cheap enough. I just need to take the time to find out what is a quality step down transformer.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2024 5:12:51 GMT -5
I've ordered this adapter, mostly because it has a switch. Most of them look similar. I found some 3D printed made in the USA, but then I wondered if they had good materials so they would hold up so I just went with this. amzn.to/3J97mNFI ordered this step down. It says 24V to 12V, but I liked that the input range was 15-40V. Not sure how it works with some that don't claim much of a range for input once the 18V starts to drop a little, so I thought it may be good if it can deal with fluctuation. Maybe I'm wrong and I'd be better off with something with low volt protection just for 18V. That may be on me and my volt gauge. Other reason was that this is 30A or 360W and seemed to have reasonable sized wiring (just based on pics) for what I'd need. I don't need 360W or anywhere near it, but I noticed that many say not to use their products at full load for long. I figured maybe it would be easier on a higher A/W model to handle say 50-60W for as long as the battery lasts than going with something that's max is near it's A/W rating. amzn.to/3vyua6tAs far as quality... most stuff looked the same to me. All of the amazon stuff looked pretty similar. I googled and found some $100+ versions... that look exactly like some of the amazon stuff with the same stickers and all. Decided to take my chances. Also realized that the efficiency range that I found with earlier searches was 20 years old and hoped that things may have changed. This claims 96% efficiency. Probably false and made up, but maybe it won't be bad. I wanted to get this stuff on the way so I can try to figure out where/how it may fit. The plan is to take a quick ride if it fires up, just because I hate to have the first run be nearly no load testing for ignition curves. Then I'll see if I can gather any info on the supplied curves. Going to a friend's house soon, but fingers crossed I'll get it running tomorrow at least. Here are some looks at 5 and 8Ah Milwaukee 18V batteries and how they compare to my 7L-BS battery and box. They aren’t going to fit the box. ATM I’m thinking maybe the step down can go in the box and I’ll see if I can make a cover so the batts can slide in and sit on top of what used to be the floorboard. I rearranged some wiring and got rid of some stuff that I don’t need with no charging system as well as setting it up to connect to the new ignition. The CDI and stator had this style of connector and then bullet connectors and a ring terminal ground. I switched to a different style of sealed connector and extended the stator wires and added a sealed connector in place of the 2 bullet connectors. The green wire left alone is for grounding to switch curves. Not sure that I’ll need it yet aside from testing both. If it ends up with a custom curve, there is no longer a selection. I used an isolator mount for the CDI. amzn.to/3J9dcP7I switched to a 200MJ from 195 and moved the needle clip from #4 to #5 to richen it and put the carb back on. I had around 3 gallons of premix from early December to get rid of. There are only 1 or 2 days a year that there is a hazardous material recycling event for local counties. I searched and found out that it happened to be yesterday with 1.5 hours till they closed and a 40 minute drive to get there. That was close. Normally I'll just mix small amounts at a time in the mowers because those things will burn about anything, but it would take me a bit to get rid of 3+ gallons that way. Just need to hook up the last bit of fuel hose and get some fresh gas now.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 7, 2024 22:39:27 GMT -5
I put new fuel hose and filter on this morning and filled it up. The new fuel filter leaked at a seam. Put another one on that was fine and then figured I might as well fire it up real quick before I had to get ready to do other stuff. Wouldn't fire or seem to react at all. I did see 20-40RPM on the tach though, so the ignition seemed to be working at least to some degree. I was wearing crocs and standing on the narrow leftovers of the scoot bench so I thought it was probably lack of a good kick for the initial firing.
I got home later in the day with boots on, took it off of the bench and kicked it over numerous times. More RPM, still no fire, but now it's I guess backfiring. When I had the NCY/HOCA small flywheel ignitions they would pop and kick back when timing was advanced too far, but this was different. It sounded like a suction and a sort of whoosh with only maybe minor pop, but there was some kickback.
I assume the timing needs to be backed off. No idea how much and I'll have to try to remember to be sure the scoot is going forward before attempting to ride it. Since there are 2 curves, I may try grounding the CDI first to switch to the drag racing curve from the road racing curve. I don't actually think that's going to get me anywhere, but it's quick to try.
So now even if/when I do get it running, my timing check won't be as "pure" as I'd like because I'll probably have altered timing. I guess I can check the rotor marking vs distance from TDC to see how much it's off of the original spec and then convert to degrees to adjust whatever curve I find... but it's not how I'd like it to go. Luckily they give you absolutely no reference for a timing light check so you can at least know where you're supposed to be at one point of the curve. I will say that in looking up curves before getting this ignition, I noticed that Malossi/Selettra at least provided a timing figure at a certain RPM for reference... aside from actually publishing the curves in the manual. If they had a programmable ignition I would have gladly went that way, but here I am with no help from Stage6's manaul team.
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Post by 808ministroke on Apr 8, 2024 5:51:41 GMT -5
I don't know anyone that can do 8hrs constant on a scooter. Hi. My name is Brent. Now you know someone. lol Not so much lately, but I have done many days around 8-12 hours and some 16-20 hours. The older I get and the faster T2 gets, the less likely those days are. I do regularly spend an hour or two on it locally and then it can be many hours at the beach for car shows sometimes. I should be going back to TN this year, so I wanna be able to ride without worry. I have a feeling 2 18V 8 Ah batteries would go a long way. I'm definitely not buying more batteries till I try with what I have. The hookups are cheap enough. I just need to take the time to find out what is a quality step down transformer. lol I knew that was coming...
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 8, 2024 11:50:52 GMT -5
So far the only good thing about this new ignition is that it helps me get my cardio in kicking the engine over… and over.
I either advanced it or retarded it all the way and it fired up. Now I’ve blanked from moving it around and kicking it so much, but I have it on video. Pretty sure it was advanced but I won’t swear to it. I thought I was getting somewhere. I shut it off to see if it would restart and it wouldn’t.
I went all the way both ways (in steps) and it won’t fire again.
I hooked up a jumper to ground to switch from the road racing to drag racing curve with the stator all the way advanced. It fired up again. OK. Maybe now I’m getting somewhere. Wrong. Won’t fire again after shutting it off to make sure bolts were tight in preparation for a short and mild ride. I really just wanted a minimal break in and a ride long enough to make sure the torsen doesn’t move, hit the wheel and send me over the handlebars before I start making a video about it.
Moved the timing around again and it still won’t re-fire with the drag curve either. Really odd that it fires once then never again. Maybe it just hit right by pure luck those couple of times. I did check that it moved forward each time BTW, not in reverse.
I assumed that the keyway on the RC-One’s crank should be no different than any other. Not sure if it could be related to that or if the whole thing is clocked wrong or what. The marks on the rotor and stator aligned in a good spot as-is though, so it appeared that it was setup as it should be.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 9, 2024 6:19:35 GMT -5
Here's a quick montage from yesterday's starting attempts. Notice it runs fine (at least idle and revs) when it does start.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 9, 2024 18:00:51 GMT -5
The Milwaukee battery adapter and step down came in, so I switched gears for a bit. I made a template from a cereal box and then cut it out of 3/16” ABS. I added Weatherpack connectors to everything and switched to a 15A fuse from a 35 provided. My whole system fuse is 15A and within a foot of the exiting yellow output so it should be well protected with a fuse on each side of the converter. The converter is just double sided taped where the battery used to be under the new panel. Voltage sits right at 12.0 for the most part. If I turn the fan on it goes to 11.9 sometimes, but it’s a pretty serious little fan. When I was turning things on and off and checking function and voltage, I noticed that the ignition key would wiggle quite a bit and voltage changes when it does. I ordered a new switch from PFS, but I was curious if that could have anything to do with the engine not starting since the switch controls ground to the CDI as a kill signal. I did a resistance/continuity test and moved the key all around for a bit. I never saw any trace of a connection to ground with the key on. I checked the kill switch as well. I found a troubleshooting pdf from PVL. It mentioned using a non resistor plug, or in some cases no resistor plug and cap for better starting. It also said a fine wire plug, like iridium should be used. I looked up B8/9/10EIX and they aren’t common so I just tried a BR10EIX iridium resistor plug to see if that worked a miracle. No such luck. It really seems like timing, but I’ve moved it around quite a bit and it did run fine when it started twice yesterday. That seems like it should eliminate some things from the suspect list. PVL’s document said that a flywheel weight may be needed to improve starting, but that seems like a stretch. I can try it since I’m about out of ideas aside from fearing the ignition or CDI is bad. I could take the key out of the crank and put the flywheel wherever I want it… but that doesn’t seem right when timing marks are aligned correctly per instructions. 🤷♂️
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 10, 2024 10:09:24 GMT -5
I moved the timing to roughly center of its adjustment, somewhere in the vicinity of where it started out, and put the flywheel weight on this morning. It did seem like I got better kick over with the extra weight but it didn’t start. I gave up and moved the camera to get a shot of the kickstart that’s now slipping and occasionally hanging up. Then it started. I decided to leave it running and get the seat on and take it down the road. Partially to see if it ran OK and partially to see if the torsen had any issues. It was way rich at low throttle, but ran alright with more twisting. I stopped about 2 miles in because I was hearing a noise and wanted to turn around anyway. The noise was the flywheel weight trying to come off. I hand tightened it with a t handle, thinking it would be fine for attempting to start it and that bit me. “It’s probably not gonna start again if I shut it off… but I can’t tighten the weight with it running.” So I shut it off and tightened the weight with an impact driver (probably what I should have done if I wasn’t gonna secure the crank and torque it). Of course then I couldn’t get it going. To make it even better, the kickstart is slipping even more now. It’s almost like you shouldn’t kick start it 500 times a day. I’m already sore and didn’t wanna push so I got a ride in the truck.
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Post by 90GTVert on Apr 10, 2024 12:14:03 GMT -5
This couldn’t have helped me get it fired, but it also can’t be the whole issue since it pops when it kicks over. I ordered from Scooter West to get genuine Piaggio parts and then ordered some aftermarket spares from ScooterTuning since I needed brake pads for the TMAX anyway.
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