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Post by billwill on May 29, 2024 5:58:31 GMT -5
Really surprising to me that no one else was registered. I would love to make it to this event but with young kids and family plans, don't see it happening for a few years. Heck, there's a mini bike club here in Baltimore and they ride every Sunday and I've been meaning to make it out with them but haven't been able to.
Hope you can get the other carb working and it doesn't act up like the VHST. Is that the PWK you're referring to?
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Post by oldgeek on May 29, 2024 6:10:52 GMT -5
........... so if it breaks it breaks. That's the spirit!  |
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Post by billwill on May 29, 2024 6:14:40 GMT -5
........... so if it breaks it breaks. That's the spirit!  |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 29, 2024 6:57:10 GMT -5
Hope you can get the other carb working and it doesn't act up like the VHST. Is that the PWK you're referring to? Yeah. I put the 34mm PWK back on yesterday. I put in a 195 main jet and swapped out the HLJ that I was using for a JJK. Everyone seems to use JJL or JJK and JJK is the richer of those, so I figured let me see if I find out why those are the needles so many like now that I have the timing more similar to Ryan's known working setup. BTW, I saw the guy from the DE beaches with an RC-One a couple of months ago and stopped to talked to him. He has an MVT on his with no adjustments that he recalls and runs a 34mm PWK with a power jet. His setup from his recollection was pretty similar to what Ryan uses. He was fouling a plug the only time I rode with him so I don't actually know if it's a good setup TBH, but yet another (even with the MVT) that has no trouble using a 34mm PWK. It's just me on this island. lol Oh, and the guy that I talk to with the 2FAST 100 Jog uses an MVT on that with very high compression and timing advanced from MVT's setup numbers. He's supposed to be doing sub 4 second 0-60s. The caveat is that he uses an oxygenated, leaded, race fuel because it's purely a drag scoot in testing ATM. I looked it up purely for curiosity and that fuel is $27/gal. I let out early on the first few test runs. RPM was dropping and again I'm paranoid. It's likely to be the CVT doing it because it seems to change as I do more runs. After a few attempts I said screw it and held it to see what happened. 9.89 @ 65.43MPH average for the 1/8 and 7.46 avg 0-60 with 2.26 60ft. Those are pretty good numbers for me. It's hanging at idle so I have to sit and wait for it to come down to start a run. Idles well otherwise. Looks to be on the lean side for cruising. I was doing 40s at 900-1000 EGT compared to cruising around 55 to get those same numbers with the VHST. I may have to raise the needle or swap the HLJ back in. I cut the plug and the dark section of it's mixture ring is just a fine line. It does have a larger smoky area in one spot, but it looks to need a bigger main jet. EGT avg @ 60MPH was 1184. With the VHST the last time with the 140MJ which produced a decent sized mix ring it was 1148. Long past best results would always be very high 1100s and low to mid 1200s. I think with timing changes that have been made, I'm no longer aiming for the same target. Mid to high 1100s is my guess for where it probably should run strong and produce mix rings that I'd expect to be after.  I'll probably put a 205 MJ in today and see how that goes. I'd like to richen the needle, but would prefer one thing at a time so I'll just continue to monitor EGT when commuting to test spots. |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 29, 2024 8:36:05 GMT -5
Started another day off right…  The atomizer came out when I removed the main jet, so I went to snug it good with a 10mm socket on a screwdriver and it snapped. Screw extractor got it out easy enough. That’s the standard 30 hole. I ordered another from treatland immediately (promo code mydio for 15% off till 6/4/24). I have 20 and 40 hole here. I had at least a few comments on vids to use an atomizer with no holes or less holes on these and of course one saying more holes just to make it more difficult. My thought was less holes anyway if I tried one, so I guess I’ll put the 20 in with the 205MJ. So much for 1 change at a time. |
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Post by billwill on May 29, 2024 10:04:08 GMT -5
Oh, and the guy that I talk to with the 2FAST 100 Jog uses an MVT on that with very high compression and timing advanced from MVT's setup numbers. He's supposed to be doing sub 4 second 0-60s. The caveat is that he uses an oxygenated, leaded, race fuel because it's purely a drag scoot in testing ATM. I looked it up purely for curiosity and that fuel is $27/gal. Zach right? I found him on Facebook and have been chatting him up - SUPER wild build. He is getting some downright amazing times. He said he was running some type of stupid small squish like .1mm LOL! You're running a Polini PWK right? I switched to the 30mm polini pwk on my bike last night and think I need to up the main jet. I'm at a 138 now and it feels like it wants a little more. Been dealing with the spark issue for ages that I just now fixed so hoping I can get the bike running less hot now that it can be ridden WOT. For a while though seeing your posts here and the temps I was, I felt like it was the PWK carb. Some people have been saying the Polini PWKs are hard to tune and get "right" but I think for the price, these are amazing and hope I can get it dialed (and you too). |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 29, 2024 10:27:49 GMT -5
Oh, and the guy that I talk to with the 2FAST 100 Jog uses an MVT on that with very high compression and timing advanced from MVT's setup numbers. He's supposed to be doing sub 4 second 0-60s. The caveat is that he uses an oxygenated, leaded, race fuel because it's purely a drag scoot in testing ATM. I looked it up purely for curiosity and that fuel is $27/gal. Zach right? I found him on Facebook and have been chatting him up - SUPER wild build. He is getting some downright amazing times. He said he was running some type of stupid small squish like .1mm LOL! You're running a Polini PWK right? I switched to the 30mm polini pwk on my bike last night and think I need to up the main jet. I'm at a 138 now and it feels like it wants a little more. Been dealing with the spark issue for ages that I just now fixed so hoping I can get the bike running less hot now that it can be ridden WOT. For a while though seeing your posts here and the temps I was, I felt like it was the PWK carb. Some people have been saying the Polini PWKs are hard to tune and get "right" but I think for the price, these are amazing and hope I can get it dialed (and you too). That’s him. Yeah, Polini PWK. Some people think PWKs and flat slides in general are the best thing ever and some don’t like them. So far I’m surely the latter. For now, the scoot just isn’t responsive like it was with the smaller VHST. When I’d normally be picking the wheel up just rolling in the throttle it’s not. If I grab throttle quick it lags instead of jumps. Not saying it’s in great tune here for sure, but that’s what it’s been like most of the time. If it doesn’t get better then this then the big carb may improve acceleration times but it’s way more fun when it snaps. For all of the people that talk about throttle response with a flat slide, they should ride one like mine with the VHST and see how sluggish it feels. No one that has ever seen it in person says it could use better throttle response. LOL |
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Post by billwill on May 29, 2024 13:49:28 GMT -5
Right, people either seem to love or hate the PWK. I will say, switching from the 24mm PWK to 30mm comes with a noticeable difference in snappiness. I may just switch back to the 24. Maybe you could try something smaller like the 30mm. I'd be willing to send you this one if you want to play with it. I'm just over the bridge from you. And LOL, I agree, from what I see in your videos, that thing acts like the front wheels is allergic to the pavement when its taking off. It would be hard to trade that instant response for just a few MPH of top speed. I also think the larger you get with a PWK carb, the more air it will end up bringing in, still run ok, but cause problems like overheating and/or knock. I just took my bike out today with the 30mm instead of the 24mm and heard some knock. Mainly when I let off the throttle slowly. Strange. And that's with 75/25 pump 93/c12. Another thing you could try with the PWK is to get one of these. I picked one up just because why not, just $20 and gives some insurance on not running out of fuel on sustained WOT runs: slavensracing.com/shop/f2-racing-fast-cap-float-bowl-cap-ktm-honda-suzuki-kawasaki-yamaha-husaberg-husqvarna/I wonder how my bike would be with the VHST. I'm a big dellorto fan but my recent experience with this 21mm PHBG and getting that right (or close to right) was pretty arduous. On the atomizers topic... I have been wondering this for a long time. I bought 2 extra, one with less/smaller holes and one like in your post above. I cannot tell a difference but am running the one with the biggest/most holes (like what you have above), because someone on the facebook groups was saying that was better LOL. Wonderful when everyone is claiming something different. You have me wanting to try my 8 (small) hole atomizer now just to see. |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 29, 2024 17:54:30 GMT -5
fly told me about the Fast Cap long ago when I was running the VHST bowl dry. Posted pics to make the idea of it clear here : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/post/435528/threadI had forgotten about it TBH. Not sure if it would help me or not. I'll get together a video from back in April when it died while testing with a clear float bowl so all can see exactly what I did. I've got updating to do about today's tuning attempts as well, but don't have all of the data gathered yet.
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Post by 90GTVert on May 29, 2024 18:37:53 GMT -5
OK. Here's the video from the clear bowl. Both test passes that I got in... well, sorta. Died on the second one. Fuel level looked good to me. I wouldn't think fuel this deep would slosh away from the jet. The clear bowl is a bit different though and holds a little more fuel. The main thing I guess it tells is that it didn't look (at least to me) like fuel level was really dropping with a 200MJ. I ordered the Fast Cap anyway. I've had too much trouble with this thing... again... more on that probably tomorrow. (Sorry the carb shot is so shaky. You try mounting a cam there.  ) |
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Post by billwill on May 29, 2024 18:55:49 GMT -5
OK. Here's the video from the clear bowl. Both test passes that I got in... well, sorta. Died on the second one. Fuel level looked good to me. I wouldn't think fuel this deep would slosh away from the jet. The clear bowl is a bit different though and holds a little more fuel. The main thing I guess it tells is that it didn't look (at least to me) like fuel level was really dropping with a 200MJ. I ordered the Fast Cap anyway. I've had too much trouble with this thing... again... more on that probably tomorrow. (Sorry the carb shot is so shaky. You try mounting a cam there. ) Ha! This is the best video I could find a few weeks ago before I made the purchase! Hoping the pwk works for you man. Again, since the smaller delly is working maybe a smaller pwk would work too. And, be more snappy for sure. |
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Post by 90GTVert on May 30, 2024 17:14:37 GMT -5
Alright, so I started yesterday out with a 205 main jet, up from a 195. It ran very well. My best run ever is 9.67 and it did 9.73 on one run with a 6.95 0-60. I suspect there's slightly more with fine tuning of the CVT, but a good result for me. The mix ring looked pretty good, but I wanted to go up on the main jet to see if it liked more fuel. It still ran well, but the mix ring was much lighter. Odd. Must be a fluke or a main jet improperly marked or something. Not sure. I went up to a 215 MJ. It died after the 2nd 1/8 mile run. Times weren't terrible, but not as good as they were and my 60ft was 2.6X twice... which is way slow for me. I suspected it may be from the lean hanging idle that I have with the JJK needle... but I haven't wanted to fix it because I was focusing on WOT first. It didn't die during WOT. I was out of the gas, coasting to a stop or to turn around slowly and blipping the throttle to try to lower the RPM and it went to idle and then just died. Felt low on compression so I pushed it to the shade, tried to kick more, and then called for a ride. Here's the last run... I never do plug chops... well, not a lot. They're basically for when I struggle, because main jet tuning typically follows curves... performance, EGT and sound/feel. It's a waste of money to cut up plugs after every run, or that's how I usually think. Well, thankfully I had been using new plugs for each jet, because they show the story of the oddity of my PWK experience. Hopefully it will let you blow this up to full size. You should be able to see that with a 195 MJ, I got a smoky mix ring. The 205 looked pretty good. A little thin perhaps in one area, but it was dark and thick on the other side not shown. The 210 was significantly lighter and looking lean. Again, I thought it was a fluke because that's now how adding fuel is supposed to work. The 215 barely had any color to it at all and appears to be very lean.  So I can go up and watch the plug show me what I expect to a point. After that point the plug shows leaner and leaner rapidly. EGT didn't tell the same tale so obviously. These are all observed at 60MPH during acceleration runs and averaged. The 195MJ was 1184F avg, 205 was 1199, 210 was 1182 and 215 was 1203. It stayed pretty similar regardless. This defies logic, however it seems possible perhaps a couple of ways to me. It could be inconsistency in main jet orifice size. I melted a piston long ago by going up in jet size to be safe on a long ride only to later find that a larger marked jet was actually smaller than what it replaced. Those were Chinese jets and mixed stuff though. The 205-215 are all Keihin. Sizes below that are Stage6. Stage6 doesn't sell the larger sizes to my knowledge. The other thought is running out of fuel. I have ran a clear bowl as shown just prior to this post and it did not appear to me that the fuel level was dropping during acceleration... or if it was, it was minor. That said, the clear bowl is slightly larger and designed a little different so maybe that makes a difference? Seeing how much fuel was in the clear bowl makes me think it really shouldn't run out of fuel with the main jet all the way at the bottom of the bowl. I've also never, that I know of, experienced fuel starvation to a point that it doesn't lose power during a run but leans it out sort of consistently and it dies after. I would think you'd get a mixture ring forming on the plug from the early stages of runs at least if that were the case... and I did do 3 whole runs and it only died after that. When the VHST would run out of fuel, it was often a quite obvious bog and then would recover after sitting at idle or low throttle briefly. Those are the only things that I can think of at this point that would make it show leaner with supposedly more fuel though. I checked earlier and I have ~65psi on a compression test. I had about 150 when it went back together. Oh joy. This will drive me nuts if I don't get it right. Regardless, I'm convinced that the stars just had to align to make it more difficult for me than everyone else. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with my setup. Ryan nor the other local guy are doing anything much different and neither thought the carb tuning was a big deal. I've gotta see how bad the engine is of course. Thinking ahead, I could level the carb out as John has suggested multiple times. It would be way less likely to starve. But then... how do you explain when the engine died in the video of the clear float bowl while there was plenty of fuel and a 200 MJ that should have been at least capable of letting it run some acceleration passes? I would like to look over and measure the float bowl capacities. I would also like to check main jet sizes, but don't have anything in that range. Not sure if I can use the lathe to make checkers as I've found small diameter stuff likes to flex too much in the past. I've gotta get this figured out soon before I have to do a 4T swap to save money. 😱 |
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Post by billwill on May 30, 2024 18:32:19 GMT -5
This is super strange, dude. I look at the image before reading much of the post and was scratching my head. Something else is up with this. I'm not sure what it is but it reminds me of what I just went through with my build. I tried tuning the carb and spent months trying to figure it out. Turned out to be PLUG GAP. I should have tried that when I first read about it on here and you talking about it. Sometimes things with these bikes are just something else and we end up missing it because we are hyper focused on what seems like the most logical thing. I agree though, this defies logic indeed. I got nothin. That picture makes no sense. All I can think of is the blacker plugs are one's showing more piston material LOL. Oof, I know that's not funny. Have you checked the jet sizes with a tool for consistency? What brand are they? Stage6 right? Seems pretty reputable to me. Whatever the case, if there's anyone fit for getting to the bottom of this, we all know who it is  |
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Post by 808ministroke on May 30, 2024 21:34:39 GMT -5
Damn the curse of the rc1 by Brent and Stephen King available on the side of the road nowhere near you...
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tysta
Scoot Member
Posts: 79
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Post by tysta on May 30, 2024 22:15:45 GMT -5
Oh, and the guy that I talk to with the 2FAST 100 Jog uses an MVT on that with very high compression and timing advanced from MVT's setup numbers. He's supposed to be doing sub 4 second 0-60s. The caveat is that he uses an oxygenated, leaded, race fuel because it's purely a drag scoot in testing ATM. I looked it up purely for curiosity and that fuel is $27/gal. Zach right? I found him on Facebook and have been chatting him up - SUPER wild build. He is getting some downright amazing times. He said he was running some type of stupid small squish like .1mm LOL! You're running a Polini PWK right? I switched to the 30mm polini pwk on my bike last night and think I need to up the main jet. I'm at a 138 now and it feels like it wants a little more. Been dealing with the spark issue for ages that I just now fixed so hoping I can get the bike running less hot now that it can be ridden WOT. For a while though seeing your posts here and the temps I was, I felt like it was the PWK carb. Some people have been saying the Polini PWKs are hard to tune and get "right" but I think for the price, these are amazing and hope I can get it dialed (and you too). Zach gillete this kid been very rude to few of us out there , he have some complex of inferiority. |
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