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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 10, 2022 11:10:10 GMT -5
That's a neat idea that should at least improve traction I'd think vs an engine sitting way out back. I've got 2 frame tubes there so I'd have to be very careful not to make the scoot crooked. The main thing that I don't like about the idea is that it seems pretty permanent and I'm not convinced that I want T2 stretched all of the time. Mate, find Yourself a ruckus chassi and put the Malossi motor on that, would be a great traffic light dragster with low weight distribution. Also, we would hopefully enjoy video's on both bikes. I don't disagree about the Ruckus being a good "street dragster", but a couple thousand dollars for a Ruck isn't an option right now. Local market is all overpriced from what I've seen... and then more expense to turn it into something. I already have 6 scooters too. One I don't have any plans for other than selling if I ever have time to get it fixed up and running, but it's useless for this because it's a small frame and was a wheelie machine with much less powerful stuff. I have considered getting T1 out, that's my other Triton that was my first scooter. Having the 86cc in one and the 94cc in the other. Not sure I wanna do that either. With the 86cc being rear drum, it's not quick to swap the engines if I want the 94cc in a shorter frame for messing around. I really don't know what I want to do. I have some strange attachment to T2 so I like working with it, but I don't want to ruin it for fun either. I had what is possibly a terrible idea, but it sounded interesting in my mind. I'm just not sure if it's safe enough and haven't really explored how feasible it is to do. I was wondering if I could create a frame rail mounting setup that is sort of adjustable. The idea was to create a steel plate with nuts maybe every inch (could be different, just rough a rough idea). Drill the bottom of the frame just enough so each nut on the plate can fit in the holes. Then both an engine hanger mount and a shock mount could be created with mounting hole spacing to match up to the nut spacing. Both the engine and the shock could move independent of each other to change wheelbase and shock angle/ride height as needed. I think I could get the shock to go maybe 5" back and the engine quite a bit if I were willing to change the relationship with the shock mount. Of course my concern would be, is it safe to have these things bolt on? Part of me says why not, since the shock and engine already bolt on. I guess you'd be stressing fasteners in different ways though. The plate itself would be welded over such a long distance on the frame that I'd think it shouldn't be a big concern as long as it's sufficiently thick. If it could work, it would be a really neat setup to swap the scoot from short to long pretty easily aside from worrying about which cables or hoses would have to change. I'm not really sure why I'd need middle settings though... really standard and stretched would cover it. I'd imagine the hard part of this would be making sure the nuts were located properly so the engine sits straight in any configuration. Prob way too many holes/nuts in this drawing since the frame isn't that long in the back, but hopefully it conveys the idea. I also thought about just welding on a 2nd engine hanger mount and shock mount, but I think it would look really weird and probably get in the way with double mounts on the frame.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 10, 2022 18:40:26 GMT -5
Looking back in your build thread on page 360 there is a pic of the stock mount setup,the square isolastic pogo thingy bolts to a hanger welded to the slanted aft tube..The pogo thingy will need to move straight back along with a new spring stop of the proper dimensions.. Do you think the pogo thingy contributes to the 'shock extension launch'?I do know that it does do some wild movements when power is applied,,The bottom mount Piggy doesnt use that goofy device,,what is that strange contraption for any way???More questions and no answers...
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 11, 2022 10:53:28 GMT -5
YouTube comment : "If you ride cruise week in fall this year I may be up from Dewey Beach on my RC-One Zuma. Awesome to see another one so close by, and great build up series btw!"
Could be fun! We'll see. We used 2 have 2 DE beach locals with fast scoots on the forum that were gonna come to a car show, but I lost touch with them before the next one rolled around. One of them posted vids of an RC-One Aprilia. I don't really want to form a big group, but a small group of 30HP 2T scoots does sound pretty damn entertaining.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 11, 2022 13:54:53 GMT -5
Looking back in your build thread on page 360 there is a pic of the stock mount setup,the square isolastic pogo thingy bolts to a hanger welded to the slanted aft tube..The pogo thingy will need to move straight back along with a new spring stop of the proper dimensions.. I kinda figured all of that would be part of the moving engine mount so everything that's there now would just move back or forward. Do you think the pogo thingy contributes to the 'shock extension launch'?I do know that it does do some wild movements when power is applied,,The bottom mount Piggy doesnt use that goofy device,,what is that strange contraption for any way???More questions and no answers... I don't really know. It's one of those deals where my scoots have always done what they needed to so I never cared to pay much attention to it, till now. I think the pogo thingy pretty much just moves under torque. So when the engine is under power and trying to rotate, that moves and I guess stops it from going till the engine is vertical or something. I assume the springs to act as cushions so it's not slamming against the frame and clattering or causing more wear. The spring in one side of mine is missing ATM and I can't tell any difference. I know that people put bolts in there that they can adjust via nuts. Robert did it years ago when drag racing SkeedR and I've seen mounts that have bolts through them, like the Stage6 subframe. I'm not really sure if it stops something or dramatically changes anything or if it's like some other racing stuff where you basically take up slack so it responds a split second quicker. I will get some onboard video at some point in the near future for us to check out.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 11, 2022 20:00:53 GMT -5
Suspension/Engine Mount View : youtu.be/OMSlyfR7HOsIf the spring on the right side looks wrong; I just stuck a random spring in there for a visual. Original was missing.
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Post by aeroxbud on Jul 12, 2022 5:23:05 GMT -5
It is quite a bit of movement. The Aprilia the wife had seemed to have a similar amount of movement though. I can see why the performance sub frame might want to do away with this movement. But is it going to stress the frame with the amount of horse power you are putting down. It's going to vibrate a lot.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 12, 2022 18:05:58 GMT -5
Great vid!!Lots of wind up on that linkage,,still dont know it's design purpose..Do the high end road race scoots use them?I chose to eliminate that system on the Snoopy build and used the 90cc quad isolastic bushings on the engine bolted directly to frame mounts..A simpler mount system would make for easier remounting if needed...
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Post by 808ministroke on Jul 14, 2022 4:18:57 GMT -5
I don't disagree. It seems counter-intuitive to my feeble brain, but I'm sure it works. In the 90s-00s I remember the kids around town that would cut the coil springs in their cars and some of those suckers looked like they would beat you to death watching them go over bumps around town. Never tried it before on any sort of suspension stuff. I may give it a try. Not sure yet, but thanks John. I too recall people doing similar things a lot of times they would just heat up and and compress the Springs greatly Or cut them all together don't remember anybody ever doing that to a car R that didn't end up ruining it ring it through that modification or other other d****** modifications they did afterwards basically I don't know of any professional or experienced car guy ever doing this...
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 15, 2022 10:44:19 GMT -5
I moved everything from the thread that I made asking about experience with stretching bikes here. I was hoping I'd get some replies from people that don't read this thread. Also; I ordered a shock and a clevis that hopefully fits it from AliExpress a week ago. I never did find anything that looked to be made for heavy loads that had an eye mount at the top and clevis at the bottom that were suitably sized for this (or most) small scoots. I believe the clevis on this is too wide to fit the engine, so I ordered smaller ones. The top mount on this is 25mm wide, which is too wide for my shock mount, but I could weld on a wider shock mount or if I end up going with a moveable setup I can just make a bolt-on for that. At least this shock has a thick spring without tons of coils. If you look at the heavy duty stuff vs typical scoot replacements, you can tell just in pics that most scoot stuff has thinner springs and more coils. I gave up on getting anything ultra-adjustable because I'm not sure that it matters after watching scoots that do launch well and I had a hard enough time finding anything beefy even without adjustability beyond pre-load. Not sure when I'll even get to this stuff. I still haven't even taken the front off to check bearings since there's play in the steering stem/head now. Still need to get the carb in tune. All of my time has gone into a vid about the wheel cutting, which I hope to be able to post today. The stuff from China can take so long though and I have no desire to rush in if I do change the engine/shock mounting around. Oh, I did see an Ice Bear MadDog 50 with a 150 swap in a classified ad for $500 very firm and with the distance I'd probably have another $100 in getting it from gas and tolls and then add on more for tax/reg later. It already has the lowered seat frame. Would probably make a nice street drag type scoot. It looks like it was done by someone that is pretty new to modding vehicles and welding though. I'm far from a good welder, but from the pics I'm kind of amazed the engine mount hasn't fallen off already. Everything looks beat. Ad says the wiring harness is in rough shape and it needs all sorts of things. The engine has studs broken off that they couldn't repair. Realistically, I need the frame (and the 150 mount would be cut off anyway) and steering stuff and the low seat frame would be nice and a clear title (which it's claimed to have). The work done on it looks so bad that I'm not even confident that I wouldn't find out the frame is messed up or something. Add in that I don't actually have $600 to spend on another scooter and there really isn't any room left here for a 7th scoot and it doesn't make much sense. The price is really the only thing tempting about it, because most other clones and actual Rucks start around $1500.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 15, 2022 12:01:13 GMT -5
That shock looks like its for a linkage type suspension from an MX bike,,has a short shock travel and a thick short spring..The dampening for those are super stiff!
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 15, 2022 14:57:50 GMT -5
That shock looks like its for a linkage type suspension from an MX bike,,has a short shock travel and a thick short spring..The dampening for those are super stiff! Well, I'm looking for something to see if a stiff shock does help. Being my size, it's gotta be pretty stiff. Replacing stock shocks on small scoots is pretty much a must for me just for regular riding. It may be too much, but there's not a lot of in-between either. Springs to swap in are as expensive as entire shocks, and I wanted something a little shorter anyway. It may not be what I ride with all of the time, depending how it goes. Even with a wider shock mount, I figured going back to what I have wouldn't be that tough with the addition of a spacer. I thought about testing a strut, but I know that's way aggressive on the street from past experience. Even in my 20s, that was a rough ride. I'd really rather not stretch T2 at all. I'd like to find out what happens with a stiff shock and maybe seeing if I can put bolts in place of springs in the "pogo" mount. If it's better, that may be enough to at least let me learn to takeoff slightly quicker. I just don't think this thing should be stuck so close to the TPR's performance off the line with all of the force that you can feel when you twist the throttle from low speed.
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 15, 2022 15:07:48 GMT -5
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 17, 2022 18:59:06 GMT -5
It’s apart again. Checking out the steering head. The upper bearings and races had nice clean grease and looked fine. The lower was full of dark brown gritty grease. Roughness and pitting on the races and a pathway that can be felt in one. Both bearings look OK. I made a pointless tool in the process. Steel tubing that matched the diameter needed. Cut to length and initially cut with a cutoff wheel for the prongs. Then I stuck it in the lathe and used the rotary tool holder to make it slightly more presentable. Steel welded to the end then drilled 3/8" and squared off with a pointy carbide burr and filing. My plan going into this was to see if I could convert to tapered roller bearings, so I measured everything. It looks like the upper would need to be 25x43x up to 6mm tall. Lower would need to be 27x43 and up to 9mm tall. Can’t find anything that matches those. I don’t really think the top would work anyway, as the shaft is 24.9x mm so it would have to be shimmed to fit or something. The bottom tapers toward the top of the height. Oh well. I guess I’ll start looking for a replacement set. If nothing else, maybe I can find dust shields/seals for both top and bottom. The cap seems to help a lot over the top, but the bottom could really use something to keep stuff out. Chinese scoots can be really lacking here. The TaoTao is even more open than this. I can see it’s lower bearing with it all together. 🤦♂️
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Post by 190mech on Jul 17, 2022 19:08:33 GMT -5
Loose bearings would increase your contact area,thats all we had back in the day..We'd clean and grease them off season and check/adjust them each race ...
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 17, 2022 19:14:16 GMT -5
Loose bearings would increase your contact area,thats all we had back in the day..We'd clean and grease them off season and check/adjust them each race ... I was thinking about that. ScooterTuning even sells a set of races and balls alleged to fit a Vento. I swapped away from loose long ago primarily because I hate installing them. I always work alone and the damn things want to fall out trying get it all situated. It's been a long time though so maybe it wouldn't go as poorly now. I quit using those when I was pretty new to scoots.
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