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Post by fly on Aug 17, 2022 17:49:17 GMT -5
well, with a linear regulator and that wide of variance in voltage it's going to sag under load. and 2v sounds about right. try switched regulator or even a buck/boost. The yammy regulators were always notorious for being particularly easy to fry.
I don't have very much background on your electrical system, but it doesn't seem like everything is copacetic. I mean obviously, but with electrical it's hard to know much without seeing. I don't think pump should be seeing 16VDC if it's after a working regulator, that's the whole point of one. if I saw 16VDC after a 12V nominal regulator I would assume it's junked.
eta: in the meantime you could always wire in a relay to cut voltage before the pump's high voltage cut off kicks in.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 17, 2022 18:59:22 GMT -5
well, with a linear regulator and that wide of variance in voltage it's going to sag under load. and 2v sounds about right. try switched regulator or even a buck/boost. The yammy regulators were always notorious for being particularly easy to fry. I don't have very much background on your electrical system, but it doesn't seem like everything is copacetic. I mean obviously, but with electrical it's hard to know much without seeing. I don't think pump should be seeing 16VDC if it's after a working regulator, that's the whole point of one. if I saw 16VDC after a 12V nominal regulator I would assume it's junked. eta: in the meantime you could always wire in a relay to cut voltage before the pump's high voltage cut off kicks in. The issue is that the regulator really doesn't regulate. I bought a Zuma regulator when I put the MVT on the TPR. I figured the kit was made for a Zuma, so I'll just use that and it should work for sure. Ha. Tried a 2nd new one. Same. I intended to try others... but try different regulators or ride and try to go faster and so on. Hmmm. I think the rest of the electrical system is OK. I built the harness from scratch with quality components, sealed connectors and tedious planning complete with a 4K color wiring diagram in paintshop. It's got a fuse block, plus a main fuse as standard, and there is a lot going on like relays for the pump and the fan and the lights. It's sound though. I was running it full wave with a past setup and a Trail Tech reg/rec. Charged at 14.2V most of the time I was much above idle. It was rewired as needed to move from full wave and the quality R/R to the MVT setup. Not much to the setup. MVT, Zuma R/R, all DC lights and everything, Motobatt that has held up to the abuse for a couple of years. I had 3 R/Rs around. Generic. No way to ID most of them to find another just like it. Stuff that I bought for Chinese 2Ts and 4Ts over the years. All of them have the same 4 pin connection. I checked them all with a diode test and they all give the same results. Maybe not values, but open or readings when probing different ways. I put the first one on and it did the same as the Tomos R/R. 12.4V, 12.2V, 11.9V, depending on electrical load from lights. I put the second one on and it would reach 12.8V revving on the stand. It didn't limit itself if I switched lights around, aside from natural voltage drop from more power being used. I took it on a road test and the most I saw was 15.0V, but most of the time it was 14.7-14.9V. Maybe not perfect, but that's about as good as I've ever had with Chinese scoots and their components. I couldn't test it quite as vigorously as I'd like because I was only seeing around 13,500RPM. It's acting richer and richer so either the floats are getting worse or the plug really is fouling again this quickly. Maybe both. Maybe the plug is fouling quickly because there's excess fuel. I'll swap the plug in the near future. Regardless, I think if I only saw a brief flash of 15V one time, this could work. Shame I have no idea where or what this is from to pass that or long or have a spare if it does end up working like this for a bit. I never went on to try the 3rd one. Again, no point because I can't tell anyone what any of them are anyway. They all match typical GY6 50/150 pinouts. I was using some jumper wires for testing so I swapped my connector around to allow it to directly plug in and got the new unit mounted to the scoot.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 17, 2022 19:16:07 GMT -5
Had to switch to the phone for pics. Call ‘em black, grey and silver. Silver was the 12.4V one. Grey is what’s on there now. Black never tested. Top left = Positive Bottom right = Negative Others are AC charging.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 18, 2022 14:17:14 GMT -5
Why does everything have to be weird for me?
I swapped out the spark plug to be sure that I was having some carb issues and not just experiencing a fouling plug. Made sure the cap was snug too and that the wire was screwed in at both ends.
I took the scoot for a quick test ride and it was indeed improved. Much better low end response. Still breaks up rich on heavy throttle. Could just be the 165 MJ, but if only that then why was it OK at first with a 170? I'll tune later, once I at least try new floats to see if fuel level drops.
During the ride, I realized that now the scoot is charging at 12.4V at best, aside from occasional quick peaks of 12.5. I turned on the lights and it went to 12.2 and then more lights and it went to 11.9. What the? This thing just charged at 14.7-14.9 at speed yesterday with this regulator. I swapped it over to an actual connector instead of jumpers and bolted it to the frame. That's all that changed.
I put the black R/R on and it did the same thing. I figured I might as well try the silver one, even though it did this yesterday. The silver one blew the main fuse. What? It worked yesterday, but charged low... like the others do now.
I swapped them around some more... not sure why. I even had to put the silver one that just blew a fuse back in... and it charged at 12.4 and didn't blow the fuse... mere minutes after it blew a fuse.
I'm so lost.
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Post by aeroxbud on Aug 18, 2022 14:51:12 GMT -5
That's really frustrating. Just when you thought you had a solution.
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Post by fly on Aug 18, 2022 19:08:18 GMT -5
It sounds like something is shorting. Have you checked to see if there's AC after the rr? Check the frame for AC, too. And the case ground.
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Post by Lucass2T on Aug 19, 2022 4:50:13 GMT -5
Might wanna check the stator itself too for cracks or damage.
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Post by oldgeek on Aug 19, 2022 19:57:29 GMT -5
Maybe the richness is actually a spark or power issue?
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 20, 2022 13:18:30 GMT -5
The new floats came in. They weight 3.7g. So, 3.6g stated. I measured 3.8 on the old ones and 3.7g on these. I put those in and was able to alter float height. I set it not far from where it was though. Took it out and it's still very rich.
I think I'm going to retest to make sure the float height indeed moved. I realized I didn't use a level on the top of the carb for the initial test, so it could have tilted. If that still checks out, I'll set it lower and try again.
If it's still rich, I'll start swapping down jets. Prob not today.
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Post by 190mech on Aug 20, 2022 16:06:58 GMT -5
I would think setting the float level to std specs (which is for a level carb..) would be wrong when it is canted,as the std level tilted would allow the fuel to dribble out of the idle circuit orifices..That could be bench checked by canting the carb with a fuel supply hooked up and monitoring if fuel is drooling in the carb throat..The level will need to be dropped till it stops,then the bowl capacity is waay less,so extended WFO runs may empty it sooner than hoped for...
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Post by captincvmn on Aug 20, 2022 19:36:34 GMT -5
How much can you move the carb away from the reeds/intake before it has a noticeable negative effect on operation? Could you move it to a flatter position?
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Post by 190mech on Aug 20, 2022 20:17:23 GMT -5
How much can you move the carb away from the reeds/intake before it has a noticeable negative effect on operation? Could you move it to a flatter position? Doubt if there would be a noticeable difference...
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Post by fly on Aug 20, 2022 23:38:07 GMT -5
How much can you move the carb away from the reeds/intake before it has a noticeable negative effect on operation? Could you move it to a flatter position? Doubt if there would be a noticeable difference... My thought was more resistance at the intake would dampen ΔP between on/off throttle. Take a little bit of harshness off the "stop and go" in the carb, maybe operate a little more smoothly. I think the trick is to get just right. And again, that just depends right for what, i.e, for what riding conditions? overtaking at high speed on a track, or? I know we always used to tell people to not run a pod or open on a 70cc kit, in general. unless it was a race tune that lived peaked. The carb is just so much more finicky to tune without that slight negative pressure. in fact, I think a lot of builds actually benefit from running an air box if it's the right size for its resonant "breathing effect." The push pull on the air box system can actually help things along and result in better air flow. I think in this situation a little bit more intake length or a little bit more restriction in such a short intake might help, but I know nothing compared to a lot of the folks here. From my understanding you want about a 10% reduction in intake width compared to the outlet size of the carb, and a smooth transition, for optimum performance. I'm not sure what the x360 intakes look like or are spec'd inside. I should think one could always just order another boot in a different angle or length to experiment. although I've noticed they aren't cheap. 😅 I saw 60 bucks just for the boot.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 21, 2022 7:59:11 GMT -5
An airbox is something I wanted to figure out for this thing... but I won't do it till I can tune it with the pod. Just like carb angle; if everyone else can tune them this way I want to know why I suddenly can't. I also need an in-tune pod result to compare with an airbox result and if I modified the intake without a good result I'm sure I'll hear that I ruined it. I'd really like to have an airbox and different silencer or silencer mod on this like the TPR. I do like how aggressive it is in a way as-is, but it would be better for my hearing (I know... but I don't like ear plugs much) and maybe slightly less conspicuous. The pod and the Malossi silencer combo is almost like going out of your way to be loud.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 21, 2022 17:02:21 GMT -5
More bench testing today. Here's the carb sitting level in the vise with various float height settings. 19.5mm is roughly parallel for the float arms and what I guessed was the factory setting. Usually they say to set them parallel for independent floats. That put the fuel level around 7.5mm from the top of the bowl. 21mm float height lowered the level to about 10mm. 23mm put it at about 12.5mm. It's probably more linear than that and I'm just seeing error with measurements. It's kinda tough to be spot on with this thing and the float arms. I measured where the top of the main jet would be in the carb and marked that level across there. It's about 23.5mm from the top of the bowl, so 11mm or more under fuel in a level carb. I don't know how much the position of the top of the main jet matters. The fuel would be drawn in from 3 holes in the jet holder. That would sit at the bottom of the bowl. Might as well take a look at the angle. I checked the carb on the scooter first. It was about 27.5-28°. That's with the scoot just sitting up. I didn't really want to go through trying to figure out where it is with me on it. That sounds difficult to be accurate about with just one person. I have another intake and boot, so I stuck that in the vise and fiddled with it till it matched well enough. Moving the hose around showed me where fuel level was at different spots, so I marked each side and connected the two with a straight edge. There's a mark there for main jet location as well. Fuel level looks off if you look at the hose here. That's position and camera angle.
Looks reasonable enough to me. I'm gonna try leaving it here, at 23mm float height. As long as flow is adequate, which I think it should be now, I don't think it should be too low. It looks like it's not high enough to bleed into the intake path anywhere... who knows about sloshing. I've left it sitting like this for now, with a small fuel supply. I don't anticipate anything based on level, but I should be able to see if it does dribble anything into the intake tract.
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