Another OLD Noob

[FrankenMech]

The belt was OK but I cleaned everything up anyway. Brake cleaner took the brake grease off, surprise, surprise, surprise... I went over the belt sides and the pulleys with 120 grit emery cloth anyway. As I was inspecting the aluminum variator pulley I noticed the three alignment lugs had small steps worn into the surface already from wear. Plastic outwears aluminum. I used a belt sander to remove the steps and a small file for finishing them.

The variator now has 30g total weight or the equivalent of 5g rollers. It worked fairly well today on about an eight mile run around town. There was just a little bog from a start but a nice ~7500 RPM cruise and good road speed. I gained speed up hills which is important around here since every hill starts with a stop sign. It is a PITA even driving a cager with snow and ice. It is also terrible for fuel efficiency no matter what one drives. I liked the deep rumble the engine gave when it bogged a little from starts. It was a lot better than Bzzzzzzzzzz...

I did notice some tiny flat spots developing on a couple of the test rollers I used in the first test. They must be just for testing only. Now I need to figure out what weight of Dr Pulley sliders to order.

BTW- The parent company of Dr Pulley sells Self-lubricated bushings and their CVT rollers are listed as made from those materials so the sliders may also be produced by those self-lubricated composite materials.

I notice there are many cheaper sliders available that just have a 'pointy' ridge on one side that look to be made of normal plastic. Do those 'sliders' work as well as the Dr Pulley product? They obviously don't have the same patented profile.

[90GTVert]

I had a set of sliders from Scrappy. They didn't weigh what they claimed to, but otherwise they seemed alright. Never directly compared them to DrPulley.

[FrankenMech]

Thanks for that info. The Prima test rollers set rollers all registered with +/-0.1g of their specified weights. Their combined weight for each three roller set was also within +/-0.1g which is probably within the accuracy of the scale I was using. I did not have a 200g weight to calibrate the scale.

The lower priced sliders seem to be shaped differently. I suppose that would make them also act like they were larger diameter in an extended range variator but still keep the smaller roller diameter for the closed position. Their profile also would give them a larger wear surface area. The force on the rollers is considerable. I wonder how much they deform under load especially for the units with thin metal cores.

The slightly truncated cone shape I made on the aluminum pulley face should also give the variator an extended range of 1 or 2mm horizontally which would be magnified in an effective diameter increase IF the rollers or sliders will push the parts far enough apart without any 'escapes'. I did not hear any exploding parts today. If I remember right I had an 8600 RPM max showing at one point on my TTO tach. I did not check it all the time. I was too busy stripping off gloves and trying not to drop my key. I also tried to vary speeds and throttle with my 'new' belt.

[FrankenMech]

I am still experimenting. I bought a new variator assy for use with the sliders from AZ Imports Co which had been double broached or something for the splines on the outer pulley. It left little 'fins' instead of true splines. I was in a hurry with dirty glasses, presbyopia, and not enough light when I installed it. I noticed something odd about the fit and tried looking at the splines. They looked strange but I could not see well so I installed it anyway. It was a 'NEW' part so it should be right... The variator lasted about three miles before the splines folded over and the nut came loose. I contacted the company and they sent me a replacement variator. They didn't ask questions so I figure they had heard of the problem before. The only bad thing is the kickstart gear pawl melted which cost me about $15 to replace. The kickstart pawl on the variator turned blue but does not seem damaged or worn at all. Of course the plastic fan melted. I am saving the blue pawl for a souvenir.

I was using DR-Pulley 5g sliders. They seemed a little light. I increased the weight on all of them to 6g by pressing in a 1/2" length of rubber tubing into each one using soapy water as a lubricant. They all weighed in fairly well. I got two 5.9, two 6.0, and two 6.1, so I just paired them up across from each other. The whole set weighed 36.0g. I am waiting for a torque stick so I can be sure of the torque on the nut. I am also going to use blue loctite on the nut.

One thing I have noticed is the fans I see for 50cc GY6 engines are all backwards. The fins tilt the wrong way and the plastic fan essentially insulates the pulley from airflow. The fans for 125-150cc engines are all correct but they all seem to be a cast aluminum setup. The 125-150cc outer pulley does not have to act as the electric start gear. I have looked all over but nobody seems to make a decent fan for a 50cc GY6. I have noticed some setups that did not have a fan and also welded the kickstart pawl to the outer pulley effectively tripling or quadrupling the spline contact area. I may try that but I don't have an extra crank with splines to align the two pieces while welding. I also can't weld worth crap anymore. I would have to drag the scoot over to a neighbor and have him weld it while on the scoot. I can clamp it all together with old variator parts and a nut for welding.

Anyone have a stub end from a broken GY6 50cc crank, say from the bearing out?

The weather has turned here and I am anxious to ride the scoot. It needs a real bath since it was out in snow slop several times. It is more white/gray from salt than black. I should just button up the CVT case and give it a bath wile I am waiting. I may try to find a hose and connect it up tomorrow.

I have been working in the garden all day. Flowers are coming up on the south side. I was trying to find all of the little rose of sharon 'volunteer weeds' and clipping them off below ground. I am sure I didn't find them all...
Once the flowers are up it gets difficult. My back yard and half the front yard are all flowers and weeds left by the Ex. Sometimes I wish I had a flame thrower.

[190mech]

I'm sure there are plenty of junk 50cc GY6 cranks from installing 50mm big bore kits as there are fried two stroke pistons out there!Post it in the "wanted adds"..

[FrankenMech]

Thanks, I posted a want ad

I forgot all about that section.

[FrankenMech]

I made a tool to hold the end of the starter bendix so I could use the electric start on my 50cc GY6. It is just a piece of 1/8" x 1" x 5-1/2" aluminum bar stock with three holes in it. Two 9/32" holes to pass two 6mm bolts and one 21/64" hole for the bendix shaft. It worked well to hold the bendix in place while starting. I used two long 6mm bolts that came from my airbox mount to thread into two case bolt holes. I have a long case with disk brakes so I don't know if the dimensions for the hole locations would be the same for other engine setups. I should have taken a picture with the retainer in place.

I could then observe my belt movement with the CVT cover off. I have enough movement in my variator to take my belt about 1/16" over the outer edge of the aluminum variator face. I would call that extending the variator range to the MAX. I am using the 6g Dr pulley sliders in an almost stock variator. I took about 1mm off the aluminum variator face so it could push the belt about 3mm or so higher than stock. The stock replacement variator already had a flat spot on the face compared to the OEM variator. So don't take too much off a replacement or stock variator face.

I am using a slightly longer than stock belt also since I noticed that even with the belt all the way down in the clutch or variator it did not come near to the top of the other pulley either by manipulation or running.

I left the crap plastic fan off so that whatever air there is can get to the face of the steel pulley. I am still looking for a decent 50cc fan setup.

I used my 30 lb-ft torque stick and impact to secure the variator nut along with some blue Loctite. www.torquestick.com

I thought about other ways to weld the kickstart pawl to the variator face. I thought about brazing or silver soldering but there is a slight chance I would braze the parts to the shaft also. Once that flux melts there is no telling where it might run. The braze metal will follow the flux.

[FrankenMech]

I have decided to give up an trying to make a 50cc engine work where I live. I could run a BBK but that does not get me much. I have been looking at 125/150cc long case complete engines. I have not found one with a rear disk brake. The issue then becomes whether I can use my disk brake rear wheel or just convert to a drum brake rear wheel. Kansas allows 130cc so I think it will be OK using a 125cc if I can find one. I will have to watch my speed closely. I could modify a speedometer to act as a speed regulator.... -FORK that.

I can mount the 125cc engine from where the seat support bolts in with a drop down motor mount. I can fab something like that easy. I can use the vibration isolator bushings that come with the engine or even add another pair into the frame mount. The alignment of the engine assy with the frame is my biggest concern. I can space it side to side with spacers though. I can make my own 10mm-3/8" engine mount bolt easily by threading a steel rod for nuts or using pins. The right side swing arm may be a problem but several vendors sell them for 125/150cc long case engines.

I have a carb and air filter setup that works already. I have plans and many of the parts to modify the stator and regulator for full wave rectification and voltage regulation already. Wiring is not a problem. The exhaust pipe may be a problem but I can fab one if necessary. I have a good muffler already

Now I just need funds and a torch to replace mine that was stolen, -the waiting game

[190mech]

How 'bout the rear wheel?50cc setup match the 125/150 splines?I wouldnt worry about a drum rear brake unless the front brakes suck,always heard the fronts are 70+% of braking and I believe that!
"No substitute for cubic inches"!!!

[FrankenMech]

The disk brake rear wheel fit is the main problem. The disk brake rear wheel has a round housing that fits inside of where the rear drum brakes would be. The other side of the wheel has a lug with four bolts that the brake disk fastens to. I can set up a drum brake easily. I figure I can get a 12"x4" drum brake rear wheel somewhere.

I will just have to start collecting pieces-parts and do the eyeball and measuring tape fit-up. That is where it would be nice to have a bunch of scrap scoots and pieces-parts sitting around. You guys with multiple scoots etc to look at are lucky. I just have one real oddball scoot to work with.

As my sig says; I can't tell one scoot from another. I should probably spend some time looking at one of the Ruckus sites. The ones I have found don't take kindly to clones as members. A reverse trike China made Ruckus clone would cause apoplexy.

I have only seen two other scoots in my life close up and I had no time to compare anything. One of them was a Taotao and the other was a

Edit: Make that three scoots. The first one was a Cushman about 50 years ago.

[FrankenMech]

12" drum brake rear wheels may be more of a problem than I thought. My rear wheel is a 3.50x12" wheel instead of a 4x12" wheel I guessed at. 3.5x12" wheels seem to be available but they don't seem to say what they fit as in 50 or 125cc engines.

[FrankenMech]

Installing a 125/150cc engine this winter may do the trick. Then maybe I can get a true 2-3HP out of it. Getting power to the ground through a rubber band CVT is a PITA also. The 50cc CVT just drives ONE side of the belt. The power figures they give for these engines is crankshaft HP at a very specific dyno tune. I know how hard dyno tuning is on a small engine and the dyno tune does not carry over to real world power. It takes 200-250cc just to get 6HP out of a dyno tuned engine. HP due to RPM is NOT the same as torque.

This is correct: "No substitute for cubic inches"!!!

I see Chevy is putting a 2L 4 banger in the camaro. I should just get out my Son's old '86 Mitsubishi Starion. IIRC it had a 2.4 or 2.6L intercooled turbo in an 1800# car. That should stomp some camaros.

[FrankenMech]

Does anyone know if a 125/150 output shaft takes the same bearing size as a 50cc shaft? In other words, will I be able to swap the output shaft from my 50cc gearbox into the 125/150cc gearbox?

Am I imagining things or do the aluminum rear drum brake wheels use a part of the wheel itself for a brake drum??? Are they shitting me? An ALUMINUM brake drum?? If so no wonder rear drum brakes don't work worth squat. Surely there must be some sort of steel or cast iron insert in the wheel the shop manual isn't showing or a bolt-on brake drum....

I have two rear shocks on my ruckus clone so I think it may have an extra bearing in the right hand swingarm and a long goofy shaft.

I guess I need to find a ruckus repair manual in PDF format. Damn, if I sneak onto that Ruckus site and they find me there I will get my arse kicked clear to China.

[FrankenMech]

From one of the Ruck service manuals I found it appears a real Ruck only has one rear shock. I have a real oddball....

No wonder my scoot rides like a lumber wagon. Four shocks, two up front and two rear. It can carry a lot of weight though. I will have to measure how much the rear settles somehow when I hop on the seat.

I am going to have to keep looking.

[190mech]

I dont think any of the tranny parts will swap between the 50cc and the 125/150cc motors.The brake drum is steel thats cast into the aluminum wheel or welded to a steel wheel..The best way to go is get a 125/150 motor and matching rear wheel..

150 long case;
www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Case-150cc-GY6-Scooter-ATV-Go-Kart-Engine-Motor-150-CVT-Auto-Carb-Complete-/381271768541?hash=item58c5917ddd&vxp=mtr

150 short case;
www.ebay.com/itm/Short-Case-150CC-GY6-Scooter-ATV-Go-Kart-Engine-Motor-150-CVT-Auto-Carb-Complete-/400602284902?hash=item5d45c1c366&vxp=mtr

50 long case;
www.ebay.com/itm/GY6-139QMB-50cc-complete-Engine-With-Brake-Shoes-LONG-Case-/151186901463?hash=item23337109d7&vxp=mtr

Lots of pics in the above links to compare..

Have you looked on craigslist in your area for a junker 150 scooter?