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Post by sai on Jul 14, 2015 18:57:12 GMT -5
Niz, no , not going to give up. I won't be installing the Liquid cool for a few weeks so I'm still planning to make this current kit work with your help. I'm just having trouble finding the solder... Yay! We're so close to knowing how much room for improvement you have! I am emotionally invested in your scooter now haha. 1.Ok I got a solder 0.117" put it in the cylinder plug hole and I kick started it 2 times because the electric start wouldn't, but fiannly put it back on and used the electric starter. The thickness of the solder is 1.74mm Does this make sense?? 2. I bought the moto seal grey and copper spray gasket cans. I thought that the malossi cylinder gasket is as thin as it can get? Plus if I use the motoseal grey gasket, wouldn't I risk getting that material into the crank bearings? 3. After I put the solder in for testing and put everything back together, fired up the engine to go home, I hear a "klanging" noise! It did disappear eventually after a block or 2 of riding though but that scared me.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 14, 2015 19:34:09 GMT -5
Gotta ask,is the piston flush with the bottom of the transfer ports at bottom dead center?
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Post by sai on Jul 14, 2015 19:39:26 GMT -5
Gotta ask,is the piston flush with the bottom of the transfer ports at bottom dead center? I don't even know what this means or how to check =\
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Post by 190mech on Jul 14, 2015 20:24:47 GMT -5
Sorry for the confusion!Niz and I want you to enjoy the power a 2T has..Moving a cylinder up or down with different base gaskets(or none),alters the port timing.The ideal setup places the piston flush with the transfer port bottom edge,this aids greatly in piston cooling,,here is an example of what we like to see; See how the transfers(small/skinny ports) are dead even with the piston at bottom dead center? If thats what you see,then we need to adjust the head thickness to get the squish a bit closer..Next Step!!
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Post by sai on Jul 14, 2015 20:48:12 GMT -5
Sorry for the confusion!Niz and I want you to enjoy the power a 2T has..Moving a cylinder up or down with different base gaskets(or none),alters the port timing.The ideal setup places the piston flush with the transfer port bottom edge,this aids greatly in piston cooling,,here is an example of what we like to see; See how the transfers(small/skinny ports) are dead even with the piston at bottom dead center? If thats what you see,then we need to adjust the head thickness to get the squish a bit closer..Next Step!! I'll have to take it apart again then... btw, the Kymco bikes come with a hard rubber cover over the cylinder... do I need it or can I take it off? Because of this cover, I'd have to take the exhaust off to get to the cover so I can access the cylinder screws.
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Post by 190mech on Jul 14, 2015 20:53:23 GMT -5
Yeah,the shroud directs the air from the cooling fan over the cylinder fins,its a must have part!Could possibly be modified to allow the pipe to stay attached though..A Minarelli engine has the shroud notched just for that reason..
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Post by niz76 on Jul 14, 2015 21:12:45 GMT -5
Haha Yes Sai you seem to be willing and competent 2t tuner and we think you should be rewarded at the end of all this learning and building and tuning with a strong running engine!! Hmmm... not sure what the 'klanging' would be... checking your squish clearance should be a very simple, quick process that takes about 5 mins. and I can't really think of what could possibly make a klanging sound?? Anyway- glad it went away! OK, so I feel like you've rounded up the materials you need to start tuning this beast! Good job! Seems like we really need a recap at this point. Since you're still learening and may not neccesarily know all the technical terms and that's ok- just keep moving forward step by step like you're doing and we can help you toward a nicely tuned engine. RECAP: I realize this is your daily driver so the engine probably isn't sitting up on a bench where you can make a bunch of quick changes but to start, does your piston clear the ports while at Bottom Dead Center like the pic that 190Mech posted?? If it does, that's great! If it does without a base gasket that's even better!
So, your squish clearance is 1.74mm?? Wow that's really wide. TONS of room for improvement! If we can help you to reduce that by even 1mm that'll bring you down to .74mm squish which should make a VERY big difference in compression and power!
So, will you be able to eliminate all base gaskets?? (Your piston clears the ports at BDC?)
What's your head gasket situation?? Rubber gasket?? You have more than one head you can try? Can we see some pics?? Now it's time to start experimenting and putting the different heads on without their gaskets and then measure the squish clearance with each change and start to come up with a plan to reduce by at least 1mm.....
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Post by sai on Jul 14, 2015 21:24:36 GMT -5
Haha Yes Sai you seem to be willing and competent 2t tuner and we think you should be rewarded at the end of all this learning and building and tuning with a strong running engine!! Hmmm... not sure what the 'klanging' would be... checking your squish clearance should be a very simple, quick process that takes about 5 mins. and I can't really think of what could possibly make a klanging sound?? Anyway- glad it went away! OK, so I feel like you've rounded up the materials you need to start tuning this beast! Good job! Seems like we really need a recap at this point. Since you're still learening and may not neccesarily know all the technical terms and that's ok- just keep moving forward step by step like you're doing and we can help you toward a nicely tuned engine. RECAP: I realize this is your daily driver so the engine probably isn't sitting up on a bench where you can make a bunch of quick changes but to start, does your piston clear the ports while at Bottom Dead Center like the pic that 190Mech posted?? If it does, that's great! If it does without a base gasket that's even better! So, your squish clearance is 1.74mm?? Wow that's really wide. TONS of room for improvement! If we can help you to reduce that by even 1mm that'll bring you down to .74mm squish which should make a VERY big difference in compression and power! So, will you be able to eliminate all base gaskets?? (Your piston clears the ports at BDC?) What's your head gasket situation?? Rubber gasket?? You have more than one head you can try? Can we see some pics?? Now it's time to start experimenting and putting the different heads on without their gaskets and then measure the squish clearance with each change and start to come up with a plan to reduce by at least 1mm..... 1. I'll open the engine up again and take a photo for the clearance of the ports. 2. Is it even possible it's 1.74mm? Maybe I made a mistake? 3. Head gasket from malossi is a big rubber o-ring... which is currently VERY flat and doesn't seem to do anything. 4. Can we just use the current cylinder head to modify it if "with" the base gasket the piston clears all the ports?
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Post by 190mech on Jul 15, 2015 4:10:02 GMT -5
Yes, the head can be sanded to remove that 1mm.Its done with a piece of glass for a flat surface with a piece of sand paper on top.Should be some info on that in the tech section..
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Post by sai on Jul 15, 2015 6:48:13 GMT -5
Yes, the head can be sanded to remove that 1mm.Its done with a piece of glass for a flat surface with a piece of sand paper on top.Should be some info on that in the tech section.. I found one vid With rubbing compound and using a hand drill to rotate the head with plug attached still. im going to get glass and sandpaper today... So what's the correct details?
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Post by 90GTVert on Jul 15, 2015 8:35:57 GMT -5
I've only trued them by hand on glass. I hooked a drill up once and it was a little tough to keep straight/true for me, but I know it worked for Niz so that may just be me. If you do it by hand it will take what seems like forever to knock a significant amount off like 1mm. Start out with a rough grit and move to finer grits when you get it closer to what you want. I have cheated and used sanders/grinders to knock out the first big bit of material and finished by hand truing, but you are at risk of taking off too much in one place or another that way with many sanders and grinders. It's easy to knock too much off of the edges and areas around the stud holes that way. I've heard a belt sander large enough to cover the whole sealing surface is a better shortcut. Still I'd want to do very frequent checks and plan on finishing with hand truing. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/941/truing-surface-glass
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Post by 190mech on Jul 15, 2015 11:53:59 GMT -5
Get a piece of black(wet or dry) 80 grit,a 220.and a 400.Spray the glass with window cleaner and plaster the sheet of 80 on top of the wetted glass.Spray the top of the the 80 grit and go to sanding the head,use a figure 8 pattern,keep the paper wet it cuts waay better,then keep going to the finer grits when you get close..
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Post by sai on Jul 15, 2015 13:13:50 GMT -5
i can't find glass but I found this granite at the junk yard for $6. 1.25 foot by 1.24 ft by 1 inch. Hope me this is good enough
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Post by sai on Jul 15, 2015 14:14:57 GMT -5
Wow 1 sheet of 80 grit and I haven't even gone 1/10 of a mm. This is gonna take forever and multiple sheets
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Post by sai on Jul 15, 2015 15:58:48 GMT -5
you guys are sadists, there's no way I could have hand sanded this by hand. I borrowed an orbital grinder from a neighbor with 60 grit and did it in 1 hour. Anyways the the above is the port clearance with malossi base gasket on. so I left the gasket on and take the rubber oring off the head and sprayed the copper gasket on. I did a squish check by rotating the fan / piston by hand and it came out to 0.84mm. Vs 1.74mm i hope this is good enough? I haven't tried riding it yet as I'm waiting for the gasket to dry in 30min
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