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Post by sai on Jul 16, 2015 23:34:05 GMT -5
***Completed project thread: 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/13398/878evo-project-ac-lcSo I'm waiting for my parts to come in and I'll be converting this AC bike to LC. Details: Kymco Super 8 50cc 2T - 2012 Current upgrade parts: Malossi 70cc BBK Malossi Variator - 6gram rollers Malossi White Contra Spring (big one) Dellorto 19mm Carburetor Yamaha 125cc reeds Motobatt 12v 8.5a battery Leo Vince ZX-R Parts coming in: Malossi Super 9 Liquid Cooled 70cc BBK Malossi Electric Pump (yes, not mechanical) Malossi Delta Clutch Malossi Wing Bell Malossi Red Contra Spring (big one) *** 1. So all I'm missing is the radiator, radiator bracket / net and hoses. Plus I know I need to find a place to put the radiator in as well. 2. I really hope this super 9 LC kit will work on a Super 8. Was told that the parts have different numbers, but according to 2 people who race, they said it should be the same. 3. Also looking for a temperature gauge if anyone has a suggestion. 4. Crank... do I need to upgrade my stock crank that has 18000 miles also? An athena crank I heard is very strong? |
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Post by niz76 on Jul 17, 2015 0:34:20 GMT -5
Sai, It's pretty much agreed upon that 10k RPM's is the "safe limit" for the stock cranks. The port timings of the cylinder design and which pipe you're using pretty much dictate how high your RPM's are going to be and it's probably a safe bet that that Malossi LC cylinder is going to want to rev considerably higher than 10k RPM's...
If it were me, I'd be replacing that crank with something more suitable for the screaming LC build you're about to embark upon! Yes, Athena cranks are very nice and would probably be a nice match for your build...
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Post by niz76 on Jul 17, 2015 0:37:29 GMT -5
I don't want to overload you with info here, but you may want to ask around about pairing that Leo Vince ZXR exhaust with the Malossi cylinder you've chosen... Hopefully somebody will jump in and expand on this idea of matching exhausts to cylinders...
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Post by sai on Jul 17, 2015 1:07:04 GMT -5
Sai, It's pretty much agreed upon that 10k RPM's is the "safe limit" for the stock cranks. The port timings of the cylinder design and which pipe you're using pretty much dictate how high your RPM's are going to be and it's probably a safe bet that that Malossi LC cylinder is going to want to rev considerably higher than 10k RPM's... If it were me, I'd be replacing that crank with something more suitable for the screaming LC build you're about to embark upon! Yes, Athena cranks are very nice and would probably be a nice match for your build... Hmm... I'm sticking with the Leo Vince (going to have it powder coated to black gloss btw). 1. Do you know which crank would fit into this bike? 2. I plan to do this conversion within 2 weeks... what if the crank is still stock, but I don't go beyond 3/4 throttle for the time being while I look for cranks (and save up money for one) ? |
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 2:56:34 GMT -5
That Leo Vince should keep the RPM's in check. What Malossi kit are you getting? I could only find a cast iron cylinder for the Super 9, but I didn't look for very long. Anyway, a cast iron sport kit should keep you in the safe zone and I'd think that that Leo Vince will work quite well with it, if that's what you are getting.
EDIT: To be honest, I don't know how strong a Kymco crank is or how long they last. If it's as strong as a Yamaha, and it just might be, then it'll last a long time. My buddies Zuma had 43,000 miles on it before he took the speedo off last year, and it's still going.
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Post by sai on Jul 17, 2015 2:58:45 GMT -5
That Leo Vince should keep the RPM's in check. What Malossi kit are you getting? I could only find a cast iron cylinder for the Super 9, but I didn't look for very long. Anyway, a cast iron sport kit should keep you in the safe zone and I'd think that that Leo Vince will work quite well with it, if that's what you are getting. It's cast iron. Part number m3111667 And I already have the leo Vince zxr. So the rpm is mainly controlled by the exhaust? Do you know if this kit is suitable for the super 8? |
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 3:10:22 GMT -5
The pipe most certainly has a big impact on the rpm's of your motor. And Leo's for Minarelli motors will rarely ever go over 10,000 rpm.
I don't know much about your motor though. It looks like it's a Morini type motor?? So I can't say if the engine blocks are the same between the AC and LC motors.
The Minarell blocks are the same for AC and LC so I'm thinking that the same would hold true for your motor. They do this primarily to keep tooling costs down.
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 3:22:41 GMT -5
Read this: motorscooterguide.net/Kymco/Super-9/Super-9.htmlIt looks as though the Super 8 uses a clone of the Honda AF16/18 motor. The Super 9 "used an entirely different motor based on the popular Minarelli design of Yamaha origins." If I'm reading this correctly, then the top end you've chosen will not work. you'll have to find a LC version for the Honda AF16/18 motor. Do you live in Canada? According to this article: motorscooterguide.net/Kymco/Super-8/Super-8.html Only the Canadians got the two stroke Super 8, while Americans only had the choice of 50 or 150cc 4 strokes. Lucky you  I think that you are going to need something like this: www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-Dio-ZX-Joker-Elite-S-DD50-Arnada-54mm-Liquid-Cool-Big-Bore-Cylinder-Kit-/171237179624You'll have to do more research but I believe that you have a Honda Dio clone motor and you'll have to order your parts accordingly. Double check my research though because I'm tired. And here is a video I found that you might find informative: This is a multi part video. |
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Post by sai on Jul 17, 2015 9:48:26 GMT -5
Read this: motorscooterguide.net/Kymco/Super-9/Super-9.htmlIt looks as though the Super 8 uses a clone of the Honda AF16/18 motor. The Super 9 "used an entirely different motor based on the popular Minarelli design of Yamaha origins." If I'm reading this correctly, then the top end you've chosen will not work. you'll have to find a LC version for the Honda AF16/18 motor. Do you live in Canada? According to this article: motorscooterguide.net/Kymco/Super-8/Super-8.html Only the Canadians got the two stroke Super 8, while Americans only had the choice of 50 or 150cc 4 strokes. Lucky you I think that you are going to need something like this: www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-Dio-ZX-Joker-Elite-S-DD50-Arnada-54mm-Liquid-Cool-Big-Bore-Cylinder-Kit-/171237179624You'll have to do more research but I believe that you have a Honda Dio clone motor and you'll have to order your parts accordingly. Double check my research though because I'm tired. And here is a video I found that you might find informative: This is a multi part video. Thanks for helping me out with the research, I actually read that website a week ago already and that's what I'm afraid of. But I keep getting conflicting infos. 2 of the mechanics and racers that built LC bikes (not Kymco super series) told me that that BBK should still fit, while 2 other people said it has different part numbers. The engine block you mean is the whole case correct? So it means the fit (screw holes, etc ) is different? I was trying to look at the cylinder to see and they all look the same to me I'm in USA and there's plenty of the 2T version of the Super 8 50cc.... so I'm not sure how that website can say it's Canada only. |
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Post by Elektrey on Jul 17, 2015 12:04:50 GMT -5
That Leo Vince should keep the RPM's in check. What Malossi kit are you getting? I could only find a cast iron cylinder for the Super 9, but I didn't look for very long. Anyway, a cast iron sport kit should keep you in the safe zone and I'd think that that Leo Vince will work quite well with it, if that's what you are getting. EDIT: To be honest, I don't know how strong a Kymco crank is or how long they last. If it's as strong as a Yamaha, and it just might be, then it'll last a long time. My buddies Zuma had 43,000 miles on it before he took the speedo off last year, and it's still going. Is your buddies Zuma stock though? I mean maybe a stock crank is designed to last 40,000 miles but when you start modding a scooter to have over double its torque and horsepower your going to lose alot of that durability. My suggestion is to replace the crank for peace of mind. |
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Post by sai on Jul 17, 2015 12:40:10 GMT -5
That Leo Vince should keep the RPM's in check. What Malossi kit are you getting? I could only find a cast iron cylinder for the Super 9, but I didn't look for very long. Anyway, a cast iron sport kit should keep you in the safe zone and I'd think that that Leo Vince will work quite well with it, if that's what you are getting. EDIT: To be honest, I don't know how strong a Kymco crank is or how long they last. If it's as strong as a Yamaha, and it just might be, then it'll last a long time. My buddies Zuma had 43,000 miles on it before he took the speedo off last year, and it's still going. Is your buddies Zuma stock though? I mean maybe a stock crank is designed to last 40,000 miles but when you start modding a scooter to have over double its torque and horsepower your going to lose alot of that durability. My suggestion is to replace the crank for peace of mind. I agree on the peace of mind moto... better peace of mind for $150 than Pieces of my brain. Any suggestions for crank and bearing and seals? Hmmm... I don't know if their bikes are Zumas, but they are VEspas and minarelli and piagios. One of them does canonball racing on Vespa and the other does drag racing. |
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 14:08:43 GMT -5
Well, according to that website, they are two entirely different types of motors.
That doesn't mean it's correct. As you already pointed out one flaw with having a 2T in America. So, if they're wrong about that, they could be wrong about the motor as well.
I would say to take the body panels off the scoot and take several pictures of the motor from several different angles. You need several of us to see it so we can correctly identify it so that you don't buy the wrong parts. That's my best suggestion.
And I would make a new thread even just for that purpose. Of course if it's a Minarelli or Piaggio type motor I can identify it. I can't say the same for the Morini or Honda motor. I wouldn't know which one was which.
Hope this helps.
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 14:13:34 GMT -5
That Leo Vince should keep the RPM's in check. What Malossi kit are you getting? I could only find a cast iron cylinder for the Super 9, but I didn't look for very long. Anyway, a cast iron sport kit should keep you in the safe zone and I'd think that that Leo Vince will work quite well with it, if that's what you are getting. EDIT: To be honest, I don't know how strong a Kymco crank is or how long they last. If it's as strong as a Yamaha, and it just might be, then it'll last a long time. My buddies Zuma had 43,000 miles on it before he took the speedo off last year, and it's still going. Is your buddies Zuma stock though? I mean maybe a stock crank is designed to last 40,000 miles but when you start modding a scooter to have over double its torque and horsepower your going to lose alot of that durability. My suggestion is to replace the crank for peace of mind. It was stock up until 38, or 39 thousand and then we put an Athena and ZX-R on it. So, yeah, it's a surprisingly tough little bugger. She should replace it though. My buddy should change, his but he's cheap. |
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Post by sai on Jul 17, 2015 14:23:35 GMT -5
Well, according to that website, they are two entirely different types of motors. That doesn't mean it's correct. As you already pointed out one flaw with having a 2T in America. So, if they're wrong about that, they could be wrong about the motor as well. I would say to take the body panels off the scoot and take several pictures of the motor from several different angles. You need several of us to see it so we can correctly identify it so that you don't buy the wrong parts. That's my best suggestion. And I would make a new thread even just for that purpose. Of course if it's a Minarelli or Piaggio type motor I can identify it. I can't say the same for the Morini or Honda motor. I wouldn't know which one was which. Hope this helps. Ugh, I have a hard time taking the body frames out, but I can take photos from the sides and the front where the crank is ? Let me do this right now while the copper spray is drying out. Hope this is enough info. Spaz, do you know which crank shaft + bearing + seal is good to replace the stock one with specially with all the mods I have on? |
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Post by spaz12 on Jul 17, 2015 14:27:23 GMT -5
You mentioned the Athena. Everything else they make is damn good, so I'm sure the crank is just as good.
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