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Post by usmcdoc on Jul 27, 2015 20:46:48 GMT -5
Discovered a new way they are restricting Scooters. 3 days ago a guy received his new Scoot in the crate. We put it together and I did his PDI. All looked well..with a few minor things like connectors not plugged in all the way. He rode it for 3 days (after we removed the shipping oil) He logged 118k on it and asked me why it would only do 27-28 and just at 30mph on a small slope. Carb was sealed of course so I fixed that and found a #70 main jet and a snow white fresh as new plug. When I rode it there was VERY little power and by a guess I would say the engine never reached 6k rpm. It launched ok..for about 25 feet..then the rpms and speed seemed to drop. Tried a #78 main jet and power was up a hair..but rpms still low. On the center stand it would rev easily to I would guess 9k or better.hmmm..so what was loading it down? I pulled the CVT to weigh the rollers and found 5 gram ones inside. Plenty light for a stock 50cc..yet it would not rev up under a load. THEN..I saw the rear variator pulley half.. The ramps were a whole bunch steeper than any other stock CVT I have seen. I compared it to an old stock CVT I had in the used parts bin..and sure enough..the new CVT was as different as night and day. The ramps were very steep and very short..the area on the outer edge of the pulley(I call it the roller weight stop) That area was about 1/3 taller/higher than the used stock pulley. Using the old pulley I rolled a weight to the end of its travel and it was a few mm above the rim of the pulley. Doing the same with the new stock pulley..I found travel was short and steep..and the weight was stopped from moving by the taller flat area (roller weight stop or whatever its called)In the new pulley the weight was barely even flush with the edge of the rim! I swapped in the used pulley and used the 5 gram weights his scoot came with. Speed was up 6-7 mph with a much less pronounced bog..as before when the engine would hit about 26mph and the rpms would drop...as it barely mushed along forward.. Oh and forget about even a slight incline..cause the scoot just fell on its face. It made it over the hill with the CVT it came with..but at a Turtles pace almost..lol. Then we tried a used DLH brand pulley half I had. rpms were way up and speed was now hitting 36-38mph. So I ordered him a performance variator and things will be resolved then. So if you buy..or work on somebody's new scoot..be on the lookout for this new 'restricting' type variator. I kept his and must say it makes a dandy ashtray in the shop.. 6 people can smoke at once even..because each roller weight track gives them their own personal cig holder..  Below is a pic of the OLD stock type variator and describes the changes I saw as mentioned above. I did not get a pic of the new one..but I will when we dump the cig ashes out of it tomorrow..lol. Enjoy, Glenn  |
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Post by Fox on Jul 27, 2015 21:01:09 GMT -5
Sneaky bastards are trying to make it harder to de-restrict. Now you have to buy a new variator. Good for parts dealers not good for low income scooter owners. Hopefully it's just one manufacturer and not industry wide.
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Post by usmcdoc on Jul 27, 2015 21:12:43 GMT -5
Sneaky bastards are trying to make it harder to de-restrict. Now you have to buy a new variator. Good for parts dealers not good for low income scooter owners. Hopefully it's just one manufacturer and not industry wide. Dave..exactly Sir.. Remember when it was a pink or green CDI wire you had to cut..then it was a spacer ring in the CVT you had to remove..then they went to the CVT Drive Boss and machined a permanent ring in the Boss. Now as you say..ya gotta buy a new CVT if ya wanna do at least 30..have a good take off..and not be a slow moving target for cagers busy using their Cell Phones..  |
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Post by Fox on Jul 27, 2015 21:37:24 GMT -5
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Post by usmcdoc on Jul 27, 2015 21:44:11 GMT -5
You left out the ol' throttle restrictor screw from the days of old and the rev limiter sensor coil inside the belt cover that I never saw personally but many European/U.K riders said were very prolific on their side of the water. They also had variators with a back plate that limits travel. The plate could simply be removed but those Chinese have been making scooters slower for quite a while now.    Restrictor washer which you mentioned:  ![]() Restricted drive boss  Oh my..wow..thanks for the pics.. *currently suffering a big flashback* I noticed the Chinese were seeming to make new Scoots slower.. but that POS variator was really a poor attempt. Acceleration and top speed were so pathetic it would have been dangerous and stupid to ride in any traffic..hell even in town with a 30mph speed limit the guy would have been run over..  |
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Post by Fox on Jul 27, 2015 21:57:38 GMT -5
What kind of scooter is it?
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Post by usmcdoc on Jul 27, 2015 22:10:14 GMT -5
Jonway Denali. Beautiful and well made Scoot..right up there with Taiwanese stuff. Even comes with a Bando belt and head light bulbs that are bright and white..not dim and yellow. 12" wheels..LED running lights. Seat latch is a keyed push button on the dash panel..just like a car. Real stainless fasteners..not 'pre-rusted' pot metal ones found on many scoots. Thicker body panels..not flimsy sh*t that will crack if you hit a bug at 30mph.. Very nice for $819.00 shipped..cause freight receipt from the Trucker shows $198.00 shipping fee. So actual cost is just over $620.00..
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Post by Fox on Jul 27, 2015 22:36:14 GMT -5
Nice looking scooter. Jonway stopped selling in Cali years ago. The smog requirements were too much for them so they pulled out.
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Post by aeroxbud on Jul 28, 2015 4:52:54 GMT -5
Seems a poor way to restrict the scoot. Just kills the performance.
Well spotted Doc
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Post by usmcdoc on Jul 28, 2015 6:23:41 GMT -5
Seems a poor way to restrict the scoot. Just kills the performance. Well spotted Doc I am sure our EPA and Department of Motor Vehicles has been on them pretty hard..since the Chinese were caught a few times exporting 72cc and 63cc Scoots to the U.S. Maybe this is their way of laughing at the EPA and DMV..because the Chinese know that most buy upgrade parts anyway..so many will replace the stock variator regardless if it was a restriction or not..as they seek more speed and power.. |
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Post by aeroxbud on Jul 29, 2015 5:19:21 GMT -5
Scooters are getting harder and harder to derestrict.
Was reading a review of one of the Honda scooters a couple of years ago and it was only limited by the ECU.
They could then sell it in Holland limited to 15mph for 14 year olds to ride on cycle paths. Then at 16 take it to the dealer who would update a new program to make it do 30mph!
Would not know where to start with that!
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Post by Fox on Jul 29, 2015 11:42:03 GMT -5
Heh! A 14 year old can run 15 MPH. Another great example of an over-reaching gov't protecting people from themselves. Some young, inexperienced and dare I say stupid scooter rider(s) went out and got themselves injured/killed and so the scooter was the problem. Not the person(s) on the scooter. The scooter killed them. It wasn't nature thinning the herd. It was a scooter that went too fast. I'm sure there's a whole underground ECU hacking economy/industry out there. It would be cool if you had a second ECU tucked away hidden and an A/B switch so you could have it run in "legal" mode and at the flip of a hidden switch it would go into "illegal" mode. That way if they inspect it all seems normal.  |
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Post by FrankenMech on Jul 29, 2015 13:16:27 GMT -5
Chips for cars have been available for many years with little dip switches to set different program parameters.
Scoots will be forced to go to EFI and computers to meet EPA regs soon enough. Then you will see chip hackers making $$$.
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Post by scooterpimp on Jul 29, 2015 16:46:07 GMT -5
I remember when i got my triton , came with all manuals etc. & a little card.in a dimebag stating adding this ring to the variator can qualify this vehicle to be a lsv (limited speed vehicle aka moped) got a good laugh out of it as i tossed it out.
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Post by iwiketuddlz on Jul 29, 2015 17:35:34 GMT -5
My iggy has a rev limiter wire,,,I hooked it up to a hidden switch so if I get pulled or are In town it won't go past about 6k muwhahaha sputter Sputter PPP!!! Ooooppppp hehe I like it ... Also kinda a theft prevention because it will not go over about 20mph when I have the switch on!!!
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Below is a pic of the OLD stock type variator and describes the changes I saw as mentioned above. I did not get a pic of the new one..but I will when we dump the cig ashes out of it tomorrow..lol.
