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Post by tsimi on Oct 9, 2015 21:36:28 GMT -5
Some of you might know my "which crank" thread where I asked for your guys opinion regarding cranks. Thank you for all the Info and for the votes. So we agreed that a 12mm crank is the one to go for, now I would like to do another poll but this time for 12mm BBKs.
There are not many to choose from so I just added all that I could find at my favorite online shop. They range from Sport Grade up to High Performance. If you chose None of the above please say which one would have been your favorite 12mm BBK.
Also if you know some horror stories (incl. pics) of seized BBKs or total damaged engines please share. I need to know how reliable those Kits are and what they can keep stand and what not.
Note: I could not find the following Kits in 12mm
Top Performance?
Polini Corsa?
Polini Evolution 3?
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 9, 2015 22:20:23 GMT -5
This is a tough question to answer. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish right? Do you want a high revving weekend screamer toy, a daily driver, or something in the middle? Are you going to put a pipe on it, or something quieter and milder?
All the kits you listed are aluminum I think? Go with a cast iron if you want something that will take abuse a little better.
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Post by tsimi on Oct 9, 2015 22:31:25 GMT -5
oldgeekGood questions. I am not sure myself where i want to go. Right now i have a Polini Sport kit with more or less stock setup. Crank, reeds, carb all stock. Since i plan to install this stuff into the 5BM case i would like to go a bit higher then sport grade. Maybe mid-race setup? Are there any cast iron mid-race kits?
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 9, 2015 22:36:30 GMT -5
Depends on a few things...
Do you ride this scooter every day and so you need dependability? Only a few days a week and can sacrifice a little dependability for more power? Or you want balls out and screw dependability? My choice is Athena for two out of those three.
Dependability: Athena sport. I've built so many of these and every single one of them, all 10mm versions, are still running. Even one that could have use a set of rings at the beginning of this summer and is a daily driver. I can't believe the abuse it's taken over the years and still runs.
Little more power and sacrifice a little dependability: Athena Evolution. I've heard this is the same thing as the Stage6 Racing MkI?Never run one but have heard many rave reviews. It's Athena, what else do I gotta say?
Balls to the walls (from your choices): Malossi MHR. I would have picked the MKII cylinder but over the last few months I've read of them catching rings at the exhaust port. That would suck. I'm pretty sure that Corrosion ran this cylinder (MHR) for a while. I had an MHR Rep and it was a screamer so I'd imagine an MHR on that little scoot of yours would be all sorts of fun!
On the last two cylinders I would think that you would need a C16 or better pipe. But the C16 is freaking awesome and not too terribly expensive as far as pipes go. Get the aluminum silencer though. The damn carbon fiber and Kevlar will start to peal off. I've had both.
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sauce
Scoot Member
Posts: 64 
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Post by sauce on Oct 9, 2015 22:37:55 GMT -5
I've never seen Top Performances cylinders in 12mm sizes, so that's not an issue with your searching skills. I was once looking for a 12mm Top Performances trophy and the site I emailed informed me that TP doesn't make them in that size.
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 9, 2015 22:38:17 GMT -5
oldgeekGood questions. I am not sure myself where i want to go. Right now i have a Polini Sport kit with more or less stock setup. Crank, reeds, carb all stock. Since i plan to install this stuff into the 5BM case i would like to go a bit higher then sport grade. Maybe mid-race setup? Are there any cast iron mid-race kits? I think the only cast iron mid is the Polini Corsa, which you said that you can't find in a 12mm. |
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 9, 2015 22:47:46 GMT -5
I can't even find any 12mm pistons for that Ploini Corsa kit.
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Post by oldgeek on Oct 9, 2015 22:51:18 GMT -5
The stage 6 streetrace is cast iron. I have set it up to run mids and it did well, I pushed it too hard and the exhaust port ate a ring. They are pretty inexpensive kits, but there may be better options available now.
As I have mentioned before, I have a no name cast iron kit on my Vino (5BM) along with a tecnigas next R pipe, rejetted stock carb, and a decent variator. It hauls yass! I would like to try a MKII sport pro or possibly even a race kit and a decent pipe on a set of the 5BM cases!
I guess it all depends on $ and how much work you are willing to do. As you know the higher the performance, the more it takes to maintain them.
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 9, 2015 23:11:39 GMT -5
There's also the option of the Athena 80  Need's a 43 mm stroke crank but it's the same price as the other Athena cranks... a hundred and fifty bucks Just puttin that out there... |
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Post by tsimi on Oct 11, 2015 7:34:50 GMT -5
There's also the option of the Athena 80 Need's a 43 mm stroke crank but it's the same price as the other Athena cranks... a hundred and fifty bucks Just puttin that out there... Is this a simple bolt on solution or do I need to replace the stock studs to hold the cylinder? It is really hard to find a 12mm BBK Kit. I read that Stage6 seize easier then other BBK Kits and the exhaust port seem to eat often the piston ring which sucks. I am not sure about those piston rings. Most higher kits have only one ring which reduces friction right? But what about stability? Doesn't the piston wobble in there with one ring? |
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Post by Lucass2T on Oct 11, 2015 8:21:18 GMT -5
I chose the athena evolution assuming it is another name for the athena racing aka stage 6 racing mk1? I have a metrakit SP but thats just another copy of the athena racing/evolution. I think its a great cylinder with enough streetability and reliability (at least on my scoot it has  ). The stage 6 racing mk2 would be my second option...but only after i figure out from which foundry it comes from. If it's from some random chinese plant i would lose interest immediatly. Then i would go for the Airsal T6R (not on the list)...they look awesome with that cnc head and 6 independant head bolts. And i have never seen any in the wild nor in build threads Malossi and Polini are nice but i think a bit overpriced. Dunno if they are more reliable than the athena or airsal? Marginally probably. Are they faster? Myabe a little? But you can make that athena or airsal also quicker yourself... |
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Post by birdman on Oct 11, 2015 15:46:15 GMT -5
I had an airsal t6 before and seized it. I would say airal t6 is a tempermental kit thats very sensative to seizing if the tune is not near perfect.
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 11, 2015 16:20:38 GMT -5
There's also the option of the Athena 80 Need's a 43 mm stroke crank but it's the same price as the other Athena cranks... a hundred and fifty bucks Just puttin that out there... Is this a simple bolt on solution or do I need to replace the stock studs to hold the cylinder? It is really hard to find a 12mm BBK Kit. I read that Stage6 seize easier then other BBK Kits and the exhaust port seem to eat often the piston ring which sucks. I am not sure about those piston rings. Most higher kits have only one ring which reduces friction right? But what about stability? Doesn't the piston wobble in there with one ring? I honestly don't know Tsimi about the Athena 80. I just like anything made by Athena because I have built so many motors with them and they keep running. |
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Post by spaz12 on Oct 11, 2015 16:22:17 GMT -5
I chose the athena evolution assuming it is another name for the athena racing aka stage 6 racing mk1? I have a metrakit SP but thats just another copy of the athena racing/evolution. I think its a great cylinder with enough streetability and reliability (at least on my scoot it has ). The stage 6 racing mk2 would be my second option...but only after i figure out from which foundry it comes from. If it's from some random chinese plant i would lose interest immediatly. Then i would go for the Airsal T6R (not on the list)...they look awesome with that cnc head and 6 independant head bolts. And i have never seen any in the wild nor in build threads Malossi and Polini are nice but i think a bit overpriced. Dunno if they are more reliable than the athena or airsal? Marginally probably. Are they faster? Myabe a little? But you can make that athena or airsal also quicker yourself... I think my favorite of these kit's would also be the Athena Evolution. |
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Post by Lucass2T on Oct 11, 2015 16:25:49 GMT -5
I had an airsal t6 before and seized it. I would say airal t6 is a tempermental kit thats very sensative to seizing if the tune is not near perfect. was that the Airsal T6 or T6R? Because i've read stories about the old T6 often seizing and just being a piece of crap. Though the T6R should be the reincarnation of it and not having all the flaws the T6 has. Better materials, better liner and better shaped ports. Dunno about the piston. I think its a Mahle piston. Oh btw tsimi try finding a Gilardoni/italkit Alu! A very fast and high quality cilinder. The Polini Evo cylinders are also from the Gilardoni factory! And that's showing! Compare the Polini Evo with the Italkit alu They use the same shape and big transfer channels. Italkit Alu has 2 versions, one with an oval ex port and one with triple ex ports. Oh and there's a 43mm stroke version as well! |
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Need's a 43 mm stroke crank but it's the same price as the other Athena cranks... a hundred and fifty bucks 
).
