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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 7:04:00 GMT -5
my buddy brought me his Tomos Nitro and it wont turn over at all... when u turn the key on and pull the brake and push the start button it wont turn over... it sounded for maybe a millisecond it wanted to but thats about it. he said the plug is firing but he thinks the timing is off... so basically i need every reason that a scoot wont turn over.. im gonna start working on it now and if i cant get it, hopefully i can come back and you guys can have some answers for me... thanks
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 7:33:27 GMT -5
this is blowing my mind.. ive had plenty of scooters that will turn over but wont start.. this one just wont turn over at all.. when u hit the electric start.. nothing.. silence...the battery is good. I checked the timing and its good, I cant even check compression because it wont turn over..
EDIT: i just jumped the selenoid and it turned over. would that mean the starter is bad?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 9, 2015 9:03:15 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused. It sounds like the engine isn't rotating at all... like it's not even trying to start when you hit the starter button. Then you say it's sparking, so I don't understand how it's making a spark if the engine isn't rotating. If it's not doing anything when you hit the starter button, you can forget the engine health for now.... or switch to kick starting and see if it starts. You need to go over the electric start system. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/647/start-troubleshooting?page=1Jumping the solenoid and having the starter work means the starter is good or at least good enough for now. You need to figure out why the starter relay/solenoid is not making a connection between the battery and starter when you press the start button. Could be the starter button, the starter relay, brake switch, or you may have a wiring issue. Make sure your brake lights come on when using each lever. The link above has more info. |
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 9:13:15 GMT -5
when i tried to start it using the button it does nothing at all. but when i jumped the selenoid the engine will rotate. but its very slow. this guy has NO cooling shroud on his engine. The plug has to be j.b. weld in. MOST of the electrical wires are all rigged and spliced together... im just gonna tell him i aint got time to mess with it. too much of a headache for not enough money. and honestly i dont think im experienced enough to deal with whatever his problem is lol
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 9, 2015 9:38:19 GMT -5
That sounds like a nightmare. It's bad working on someone's wiring hack job. It's even worse when you see things like a plug epoxied in and no shrouds being used because it shows you that someone isn't necessarily concerned about fixing things the right way. And it's way worse if you are doing this for someone to make a buck because it will probably take a while to figure out their wiring to the point that you make essentially nothing on it for the time invested. Even if you're experienced, it's not a good deal. He probably doesn't wanna pay someone to fix it how it should be done and it sucks doing macguver/hack repairs because you don't wanna put your name on it. Imagine he tells people you are his mechanic as they look at the lack of shrouds, JB'ed plug, and rats nest of wires.
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 9:43:45 GMT -5
That sounds like a nightmare. It's bad working on someone's wiring hack job. It's even worse when you see things like a plug epoxied in and no shrouds being used because it shows you that someone isn't necessarily concerned about fixing things the right way. And it's way worse if you are doing this for someone to make a buck because it will probably take a while to figure out their wiring to the point that you make essentially nothing on it for the time invested. Even if you're experienced, it's not a good deal. He probably doesn't wanna pay someone to fix it how it should be done and it sucks doing macguver/hack repairs because you don't wanna put your name on it. Imagine he tells people you are his mechanic as they look at the lack of shrouds, JB'ed plug, and rats nest of wires. Took the words right out of my mouth, I'm sure i could fix it eventually but like you said, it isnt worth it honestly. If i could like this post a million times i would lol |
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Post by Fox on Nov 9, 2015 11:08:51 GMT -5
The solenoid/relay should have a plug connector on it. Test the harness side of that connector for voltage with the start button pressed. If voltage is present then the solenoid is bad. If no voltage then there's a issue with the start button itself or the wiring for the start button. No power in or out if that makes sense.
Do you have a test lamp?
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 13:27:46 GMT -5
yes i have a test light. when i hooked the jumpbox up to the battery and jumped the selenoid it started turning over regular and almost started so im guessing he needs a new starter button
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 13:33:15 GMT -5
And the test light comes on when I push the starter button. I just checked. Well actually it came on without even having to push the button. So the relay can still be bad even tho I can jump it?
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Post by Fox on Nov 9, 2015 14:56:45 GMT -5
Yes. Jumping it is another term for bypassing it. You are removing it from the equation when you jump it. Another term is "bridging" When you do it it provides an alternate pathway for the current to flow.
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 9, 2015 16:47:28 GMT -5
So all signs lead to a bad starter relay then
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Post by renagade281 on Nov 11, 2015 13:16:07 GMT -5
Ok I replaced the starter relay and it turns over fine now. I replaced the carburetor and its turning over fine and even sounds like it wants to start. Its like right on the verge of starting but just won't actually start. I honestly think the compression is low because it turns over very fast. But I can't test for compression because his plug has to be jb weld in. I know the plug is firing fine because I out the spark plug tester on it and the light comes on. I tried spraying starter fluid in it and that's when it came very close to starting. Any suggestions on what I may have missed?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 11, 2015 15:29:44 GMT -5
Try a valve lash check/adjustment and see if it improves.
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Post by strgazr27 on Nov 11, 2015 22:09:43 GMT -5
Ok I replaced the starter relay and it turns over fine now. I replaced the carburetor and its turning over fine and even sounds like it wants to start. Its like right on the verge of starting but just won't actually start. I honestly think the compression is low because it turns over very fast. But I can't test for compression because his plug has to be jb weld in. I know the plug is firing fine because I out the spark plug tester on it and the light comes on. I tried spraying starter fluid in it and that's when it came very close to starting. Any suggestions on what I may have missed? Feel for blowby around the plug. The spark plug is literally JB welded in place? Unless it's sealed perfectly you're likely losing compression big time. As far as spark. All you're testing is that the coil is firing if you can't physically pull the plug and see the plug fire. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 22:14:39 GMT -5
My guess would be that the jb welded plug hack is leaking and, and engine with not enough compression will not start. If it were me, I might sprinkle some baby powder around the base of the plug and crank the engine. If that powder blows all over the place...there is your compression leak. Time for a helicoil or probably a new head. JB Weld is great stuff and I use it all of the time but, this application is a bit extreme due to the temp differentials involved. Also, the thermal expansion of the head, and contracting when cooling, would exceed the JB Weld application parameters.
My 2 cents,
Bill
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