Low price Chinese scoots. Uniformity? Standard parts?

[bluegoatwoods]

I've been watching the youtube tutorial vids that our admin, 90GTVert has posted. Excellent stuff! I've already got a much more clear picture of what's to be found underneath those body panels.

One of his series is the uncrating and post-delivery inspection (PDI) of a Tao Tao 50cc. This is something that I could do. If I had a crated-up Tao Tao waiting on me right now, then I could approach it with confidence. (Well.......after I finish the series of vids, anyway)

So that's just fine.

I have a vague notion of buying one more scoot sometime a bit further down the line. A spare. For the inevitable time that my scooter or my wife's scooter needs some repair. I'll be able to approach this repair with less anxiety if she, or I, have something to ride while the main scoot is being repaired.

I'll be more than happy to do a proper PDI if it means that I save somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 on the purchase.

So now I'm thinking back to some window shopping I've done over the last few years. At sites like 'real cheap scooters dot com"    --that's a made up name, but there are sites like that--  I'd see some very good looking scooters at very low prices. I got scared away by reviews that indicated that these were very bad scooters. I could also see that if I ever needed parts for such a scooter that the vendor who sold it to me would be of no help at all.

But I could view all of this differently if I had an understanding of the particular scoot and if parts were available from, say, one of the sponsors here.

I guess my question boils down to this. If I bought a real no-name from some outfit in Southern California would I find that a lot of those components are the same ones on, say, the Tao Tao?

Or am I more likely to find myself with a bunch of unique components which I stand no chance of ever finding replacements for?

[90GTVert]

May 30, 2016 9:30:09 GMT -5 bluegoatwoods said:

I'll be more than happy to do a proper PDI if it means that I save somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000 on the purchase.

I feel I should clarify this a little. The savings of $1000 is not necessarily accurate. The Chinese scooters, pre or post PDI, are not on the same level as brands like Yamaha, Vespa, Piaggio, etc.... You aren't only paying for the name, although in some cases you may be overpaying to some degree because of it. When you look at a new $600 Chinese scooter, you're looking at corner cutting. They're getting the corner cutting down to more of a science now, as it seems the quality is better than 10 years ago if you were to buy the cheapest scooter you could find, but it is still likely to become evident throughout ownership that you aren't riding a precision engineered machine. You're on something using the cheapest materials that was assembled in a hurry.

For an example... my TaoTao has been pretty reliable after a full PDI, but I still have had bearing issues, oil seals that like to leak even after multiple replacements, plastics cracking, a headlight housing that can't take a bulb bright enough for good lighting without melting, a tail light assembly that cracked, I had front brake issues early in it's life, and so on. It's still obviously Chinese. I wouldn't expect it to be anything like the experience I'd have with a brand new Japanese or European scooter... and if those did have issues, there would be real dealers with qualified mechanics that could help in the warranty period as long as warranty terms are met.

This is why you can find plenty of recommendations around here to consider used big name scoots if you're in the market for Chinese scooters.

May 30, 2016 9:30:09 GMT -5 bluegoatwoods said:

So now I'm thinking back to some window shopping I've done over the last few years. At sites like 'real cheap scooters dot com"    --that's a made up name, but there are sites like that--  I'd see some very good looking scooters at very low prices. I got scared away by reviews that indicated that these were very bad scooters. I could also see that if I ever needed parts for such a scooter that the vendor who sold it to me would be of no help at all.

But I could view all of this differently if I had an understanding of the particular scoot and if parts were available from, say, one of the sponsors here.

I guess my question boils down to this. If I bought a real no-name from some outfit in Southern California would I find that a lot of those components are the same ones on, say, the Tao Tao?

Or am I more likely to find myself with a bunch of unique components which I stand no chance of ever finding replacements for?

Most Chinese scoots these days are four stroke 139QMBs if you're looking for a 49cc or GY6 150s if you want it's big brother. Parts are easy to find for both, and most of the time you shouldn't run into manufacturer specific stuff that you can't get. There are some oddballs around, like the 49cc 4T with a 2T CVT, but I haven't heard about newer stuff like that. I won't swear it's not out there though. Mostly you'll find differences like if it has a 6, 8, or 11 pole stator and which rectifier/regulator goes with it or if it's an AC or DC CDI. Disc or drum brakes. Things like that. Then on the frame and body, you tend to have a few popular styles rather than any manufacturer making their own parts that only fit it.

So many Chinese scooters are probably manufactured in the same plants, because if you buy enough of them they will put your name on them. So company A, B, and C may all buy thousands of units that came from the same assembly line, but they would all be badged according to whatever each company specified when placing the order.

[niz76]

That's a good question BlueGoat. One that gets asked often and I think a lot of folks who are new to scooting get caught up in the name-game.

I'll see if I can explain...

The short is yes, the components are all the same. There is a long answer also!
Most of the cheap China scoots you see are pretty much all the same. They're manufactured in China by a handful of factories and then imported here to the U.S. by thousands of different importers/retailers who choose to name them whatever they want. Take the most common, bottom of the barrel cheap China scoot out there: The TaoTao ATM50-A1. Here's a pic:





Now, here's a pic of a Roketa MC-08




Now here's a pic of an IceBear PMZ50-04




....Aaand a Peace Sports TPGS805...




Lol, see a pattern here? If you order a shipping container full of these scoots the factory will put whatever name on them you want! Now, here's a BlueGoat GTpos-50




lol, so if you're looking for parts for your GTpos50 and can't seem to find anything, don't fret! They're all the same! Just with different names! The main thing you need to know when buying parts for your china scoot is what engine it has. The most common one- and the one these here all share, the 139qmb. If you think about it, once you pull the engine out of your scoot with the rear wheel and exhaust attached there's really not much left- just a seat and some plastics...

Like I said, this is the long answer and there is way more to it but for the most part they're all the same. There are variations of the 139qmb like longcase and shortcase etc. so they take different sized belts and cvt covers but all the main components such as cdi, coil, exhaust, etc. same.

Of course not all China scoots have a 139qmb 4 poke engine in them. Some of the older ones have 2t engines- those are the ones us 2t guys like!- the Minarelli 1e40qmb. Those ever imaginative Chinese also sold that same scoot above with a Minarelli 2 stroke under it also! 

Now, keep in mind that the bigger name scoot manufacturers have proprietary parts- like Honda, Yamaha, Kymco, etc. To make it even more confusing, some Kymco's use a Honda design engine so some Honda parts will fit the Kymco motors, and the China Minarelli engines are clones of the Yamaha horizontal Minarelli engine so you could buy Yamaha parts for your China scoot or vise versa... The variations are endless!

For the most part, all the recent China scoots you see for sale are based on the 139qmb engine so parts availability/swapping won't be an issue. You can swap parts off your new retro qmb scoot onto your GTpos since they use the same engine!

[bluegoatwoods]

Okay, folks. I think I'm getting the picture. Thanks.

I qualify as a 'hacker'. In the pre-computer sense. My definition; A guy who doesn't really, really know what he's doing. But he's going to go ahead and do it anyway. And he's willing to learn as he goes. And accept those occasional failures as the price he pays.

Working on these scoots is right up my alley.

And this is all good news since I had been thinking of these as something that I don't dare touch. Now that I have more perspective on it, I can see that this is within my grasp.

I won't be jumping in immediately. I still have things to learn with the Honda and the Kymco.

But further down the road.......oh yeah!

And I'll keep learning about them in the meantime.

[niz76]

Nice Bluegoat!

Before I ever owned a gas powered scooter 2 years ago (well, i did have a spree 25 years ago when I was 15) I was into electric scooters or ebikes. I'd see all these carbs and parts for gas powered scoots and just think how confusing that all must be. I really didn't even know much about working on engines period. I'm smart enough- as they say- to be dangerous when it comes to working on my car. I can change my own oil and do a tune-up. I have dropped fuel tanks and replaced fuel pumps using a Haynes manual but not really a "car guy" or engine guy at all. I was better with a soldering iron!

   When I lost my driver license two years ago due to unpaid tickets that were snowballing out of control I had to sell my Ford Explorer to pay the tickets and get my license back. I then bought a 49cc scooter as cheap transportation since insurance isn't required and I can drive it pretty much year-round here in Tampa.

  I did a real quick Google search inquiry before buying to see what I should look for and what to look out for. I basically got the gist to stay away from cheap China scoots if possible so I jumped on a Baccio VX50 for $500 right away as I thought I was buying an Italian made scoot by the name lol. What a newb I was! Those tricky Chinese got me with an Italian sounding name! I just happened to luck out that I bought a 2t as my first scoot. I wouldn't have known the difference anyway! I quickly warmed up to my Chinese scoot and started digging in fixing a few little issues it had here and there. I eventually came across Brent's (90GTVert) youtube videos and spent hours watching them and learning how to maintain and modify my scoot. I had no idea you could modify these to make them faster! Again- what a noob!

  I drove my scoot for the first month with no cooling shrouds and it overheated on a regular basis as that's the way I bought it and just didn't know any better. I eventually got a cheap China BBK and ebay pipe for it and read this forum and the tech library until my eyes bled (not really). ;P
Now it's 2 years later and I've bought and fixed up nearly 30 scooters! Once you get the main gist of how they work and run it's not all that difficult to figure them out. Of course I'm still learning daily and still have major obstacles on a daily basis that I struggle to overcome. I have an actual Italian scoot now- a vintage Vespa P200 and wow talk about challenging! It's engine is currently sitting on the workbench waiting for new parts to replace the piston I destroyed. Hey if you aint breaking something you aint trying hard enough!

Once you get your spare scoot to tear apart and tinker on you'll really start learning hands-on. It's a nice feeling to know there's a whole community of experienced folks here to back you up. Chances are someone has been there and done that to help you out with whatever issue you're struggling with at the moment. Just know that modifying these little scoots is addicting so might as well buy a big tub of hand cleaner now.
Hehe.
Scoot on brother! We're all here to help!

[bluegoatwoods]

They got you with an Italian sounding name, huh? Lucky for me that I've already learned enough to avoid that. But it's an error I certainly could have made.

And I'm beginning to like the notion of non-proprietary parts.

I'm much like you, niz, in that I'm not an auto mechanic. Not by a long shot. But I've done brake jobs. Including drums. I've replaced old style mechanical fuel pumps. Stuff like that. And I know how to use a torque wrench and a multi-meter.

The most complex job I've ever done was tearing down and re-building a Yamaha XS-850 engine. I wasn't a newb as far as riding is concerned. But I guess I had things to learn as far as looking after an engine goes. A dumb, dumb mistake on my part caused me to spill a little bit of road gravel into the middle cylinder.

I saw it happen and the consequences struck me at that very moment with the strength of a wrecking ball. "I've got to stop right now, learn how to open up this engine and start taking the darned bus to work!"

I could have cried. Maybe I did. I don't remember.

But re-building that engine was a great experience. After the headache went away.

But I'm starting to ramble. From what I've learned here, I don't fear those no-name Chinese scooters very much.

I'll probably start looking for distressed ones in the neighborhood, buy them cheap, fix them up and sell them. Not today or tomorrow. I'll try to learn a bit more first.

And I'll expect that a certain number of them won't be save-able no matter what I do. That's not exactly a good thing. But it goes with the territory and it's, sort of, part of the fun.

[90GTVert]

May 30, 2016 12:58:35 GMT -5 bluegoatwoods said:

I'll probably start looking for distressed ones in the neighborhood, buy them cheap, fix them up and sell them. Not today or tomorrow. I'll try to learn a bit more first.

And I'll expect that a certain number of them won't be save-able no matter what I do. That's not exactly a good thing. But it goes with the territory and it's, sort of, part of the fun.

If you haven't found it already, check this out :
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/11147/scooter-flip-buying-reselling-profit?page=1