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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 2, 2017 16:06:03 GMT -5
This is a topic that's been touched on a few times, but it really can't be addressed enough. If you're new to scooters, aren't very familiar with the mechanics, or are just looking to start diving into scooter-holics, this is some information you should know.
First, know what YOU want out of your scooter. Will you be RELYING on it as a major mode of transportation, is it for toying around on nice days, do you plan to race it, or is it something you want to invest in? This point is worth more than that cheap scooter you've been eyeballing on craigslist. YOU have to know what you want to do with it and how much money and time you will eventually be investing into repairs, upgrades, and maintenance. This will be the biggest point on helping you decide what brand, model, age, and condition you would be looking for.
Second, ask knowledgeable scoot-owning friends, family, or your favorite scoot forum what they know about particular models you see for sale. Share links and pictures. Discuss price point, listed damages or maintenance needs, and condition. Become more familiar with the scooters you're likely to consider. The more you know about the scooters themselves, the better you'll be at negotiating a fair price when that time comes.
Third, understand that sellers generally want as much as they can get for it, they may not divulge all the problems the scooter may have. It's up to you to be able to ask the right questions or spot the problems that would cost you in extra repairs right away. Being able to spot accident damage, missing parts, or other discrepancies will help you in the end. Don't be afraid to walk away from a deal. This is YOUR investment. What is it worth to you?
Fourth, and this may be the most important of them all, COVER YOUR ASS! Check the VIN and Engine codes! Ask to see the title! Look at the locks and the keys! VERIFY ITS NOT STOLEN!!! I cannot stress this enough!!! This is supposed to be YOUR pleasure, YOUR ride to work, YOUR SCOOTER. If you live in a place where registration is NOT REQUIRED, you can still COVER YOUR ASS by getting a bill of sale. Be detailed! Include the sellers full name, address, telephone number, the scooter vin & engine code, the day and time you're purchasing it, then BOTH OF YOU SIGN IT! Take pictures of it with YOUR phone the moment the seller shows it to you. Then bring this up to the local law enforcement or DMV to VERIFY this is a clean scooter. This will cover you legally in court if you witnessed or received stolen property. The last thing you want to do is go out to buy something to get you to work, then spend the next 60 days in jail for receiving stolen property.
When it's all said and done, you've found the scooter you want, and you were able to negotiate a good price, go ahead and enjoy it! If you found the holy grail of vespas and the seller didn't realize it was a gold mine, take pride in bringing home THE FIND! But be safe about it. Its YOUR neck on the line...
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Post by pinkscoot on Mar 2, 2017 20:01:45 GMT -5
Well put Atari guy
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Post by bluegoatwoods on Mar 2, 2017 22:03:52 GMT -5
Good stuff.
Myself, I might not get my head in the game quite this much since I"m a bit more inclined to dive in and learn the hard way. It really does have the advantage of being quicker. Usually.
But there was a piece of advice that atariguy gave above that I just might take to heart. That is to get a good look at a clean title first thing. If the guy gives excuses, then walk away. No matter how good the deal might seem, this is a burn waiting to happen.
The more I think about it I did get involved in a 'no title' deal about 30 years ago. A '67 VW Beetle. I loved that car, too, as a matter of fact. It was a lot nicer than I expected a VW to be.
I never did get that car legal. They guy who sold it to me gave me some kind of paper and told me that I wouldn't have any trouble with the DMV. Garbage! Then he took off to Massachusetts. I knew he was leaving town. That's why he was selling the car.
I don't think the car was hot. And I don't think the guy was actually trying to burn me. He was just an irresponsible hippy. Good company and we had some good trips together. But don't buy a motor vehicle from folks like that if you want it to be neat and simple.
I drove that car for more than a year. Maybe more than two. Just keeping a low profile. I abandoned it in the end. I knew it would come to that since I couldn't sell the thing.
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Post by benji on Mar 2, 2017 23:13:19 GMT -5
I've found alot of the time that honest scooter owners tend to lose the title and keep there scooters outside for 6 years never starting it, then wanna sell it for $100 less than new. The guys that are selling stolen scooters have a perfectly running scooter w a title and plate, for cheap, but all the parts are obviously from another scooter or the title won't match color/name of scooter, like they put a couple together. The guys that have a grenaded motor or bent frame or front fork usually say "needs a new carb" and "runs great but the carb won't let it start..." that way you cant ride it and see its bent or try kicking it over and feeling the motor grind like a coffee can full of old bolts...
Buy new. Or buy every scooter you find(like me), that way you can mix n match parts/titles til you got something you can ride haha.
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Post by 90GTVert on Mar 3, 2017 10:33:02 GMT -5
I bought T2 without a title and with the ignition lock damaged from prob a screwdriver. Got it for $60 on eBay from a mechanic shop who said that a customer brought it in not running and then never came back for it. I figured I was pretty safe since the mechanic had it for a long time and I could show where I got it from. I saved a printout of the eBay listing and any other reciepts. It still worried me for years, till I got pulled over and the cop ran my VIN and then the state started requiring titles and registration and both went fine. I got lucky with my $60 90cc 2T Triton that has 10s of thousands of miles on it now, but I don't think I'd ever do it again unless I had the police run the VIN before I bought it.
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Post by benji on Mar 3, 2017 11:24:23 GMT -5
You can actually call your local police dept(don't use 911! They have non-emergency lines haha) or dmv and tell em your buying a scooter and you wanna check the Vin to see if it's stolen. They'll usually oblige for you. If it's not stolen, and no title, get a bill of sale from the dude anyway and you can usually get a title if you try hard enough. There's actually a few company's in Vermont who specialize in titling vehicles w no/lost titles. In this state(washington), if it hasn't been tabbed in 3 years, it's not in the system. As long as it's not stolen, you apply for a new title and a state patrol inspection just like you would if you ordered a tao tao online. Also, in this state(washington), pots legal  |
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Post by badpumpkin on Mar 3, 2017 20:02:06 GMT -5
One can Google, title company, and some lawyers in different states can get you a title from that state. Example, title kings in Florida. I might have to go this route for my 150cc.
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Post by pinkscoot on Mar 3, 2017 20:30:59 GMT -5
I had my latest scoot inspected today by an inspector from the DMV License & Theft Bureau. I had a notarized affidavit of facts and the Bill of Sale. He asked where I got it and where the seller got it. He told me he had caught a stolen motorcycle motor the yesterday. He had a badge and gun. I guess I didn't act nervous so he approved it. If a vehicle has been titled in your state the Vermont route doesn't work. Its always better to be on the up and up, Karma is a bitch that will always bite you in the ass.
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Post by AtariGuy on Mar 4, 2017 2:22:23 GMT -5
I find it helps being up front with the law about information, and the more you provide, the better the case is that you've been an innocent party caught in someone elses misdeeds. It would still be saddening to have your purchase taken away from you because it was stolen property, but at least you're not also considered suspect of the theft
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Post by niz76 on Mar 4, 2017 2:58:15 GMT -5
I've been through a bunch of different title issues including the Vermont route (I got lucky and my scoot was never titled in my state) and I can def say that most of the sellers that say stuff like "Bill of Sale only" "easy to get title" or "you can file for a lost title" or any of the other typical crap they write about non-titled bikes is total B.S.! In my state anyway. (FL).
Bill of sale is practically useless and they rarely even ask to see it when transferring title. (That's how 'important' it is haha).
If your name isn't on file as the current owner they sure aren't going to issue a title in your name for ANY reason! A properly signed over physical title is the ONLY way to transfer ownership.
Shoot, just imagine- if any of these title scenarios were true that the typical CL'er writes, you could spot a nice Corvette in the parking lot, walk into the DMV and ask to file for a "lost title" in your name.
"Are you on file as the current owner of this Corvette?"
"No, but I sure do like it so just go ahead and produce a title for me in my name. The owner lost it and said I could just file for lost title in my name!"
"Oh, ok- here ya go sir, title for that Corvette in the parking lot now in your name!"
lol. Not gonna happen.
If the owner "lost" the title, they must pay the $90 for the replacement title and then and only then can they sign ownership over to you...
If you call the Tax Collector office in FL (DMV) and ask about securing a title for a vehicle you want to purchase they'll simply tell you; "Don't buy anything without a title."
If you say "Well, I bought this with no title but I have a Bill of Sale here..."
They'll say; "Sorry bud, you're SOL. Shouldn't have bought a vehicle without a title."
Claiming ignorance of title issues doesn't get you anywhere at the DMV! Scoots without titles are now parts bikes! (in FL anyway).
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Post by pinkscoot on Mar 4, 2017 10:39:34 GMT -5
I was lucky with mine because the title last changed hands in 2010 and I don't think its had plates, they just rode it as a moped. The inspector could see all this and it was never reported stolen so the bond will take care of anyone that comes forward and claims it, they will be paid off. I think if it had current plates or was a much newer scoot it would be a no go. I also suspect that I would have a hard time going that route anytime soon, it would send up a red flag. It's nice that in my state we have the mechanism to be able to do that.
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Post by benji on Mar 4, 2017 21:06:25 GMT -5
In my state (washington, not sure about others tho) if it goes unregistered for 3 years, the title disappears from the system. If your the title holder, you can go in and they'll issue a title and plates w tabs immediately. If your not the title holder, you must either produce a bill of sale or claim it has been on your property abandoned. If you say it's abandoned, they make you wait 3 years from the day of filing for a title so they can send a certified letter to the last known address, then you can have the state patrol inspect it and you'll receive a new title. If it was sold to you, it's treated as a new scooter- state patrol inspection to make sure it's legal and not some stolen scooter w the vin number covered up/modified/rebuilt w stolen parts. Not easy tasks, but not impossible. At least here. You just have to look up the titling laws in your state and navigate them so you can ask the correct questions. Most of the time they'll ask you to mail a letter to the dmv asking for the last known name and address of the owner, and your supposed to attempt to locate them and have them sign a release of interest if it has a current valid title. If you can't find the owner, and it's currently titled (like that shiny corvette in the parking lot) it must be abandoned on your property for 3 years, then the process starts anew.
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