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Post by badluna on May 9, 2017 11:03:06 GMT -5
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Post by gsx600racer on May 9, 2017 12:15:56 GMT -5
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Post by badluna on May 9, 2017 14:04:06 GMT -5
Im not sure how to do this on my stator. My stator dosnt have a green ground wire. and i dont understand how stators work so im scared to tinker.
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Post by gsx600racer on May 9, 2017 18:08:06 GMT -5
I don't think what you are trying to accomplish by swapping regulators will give you more power(output). Maybe this link might be more helpful. scootdawg.proboards.com/thread/40336/full-wave-rectifier. My understanding has always been that a 4 plug(4 wire) regulator are half wave, a 6 plug(5 or 6 wires) regulator are full wave. Most that have converted to full wave have also swapped or rewired the stator. |
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Post by oakleyscoot on May 9, 2017 19:45:36 GMT -5
How many lumens is your LED ?
It seems to me that 45 watts for an led light is a bit high unless it isn't a very good one.
I use some 4000 lumen led's ( very bright ) and they use less than 2 amps.
Your 45w would seem to draw 3.75 amps, this seems to be a high draw for an led.
if your old regular bulb was a 25W it drew about 2 amps, if it was a lower wattage it drew even less.
To better help we need to know the real current draw of your led.
what is the led number so we can look up some spec's.
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Post by FrankenMech on May 9, 2017 22:24:17 GMT -5
Gsx is correct. The 4 terminal regulator on a standard scoot is a shunt regulator, it just shorts part of the waveform to ground. Basically you get an almost half wave rectified DC output left over with the excess voltage over what your battery needs cut off of the peak, resulting in a messy square wave or pulsating DC somewhat similar to the half wave diagram but more square averaging about 14V. mastercircuits.blogspot.com/2012/07/half-wave-to-full-wave-conversion.htmlThe stator can be rewired like the link shows to get rid of the ground tap. Then an upgraded regulator can be used to regain some of the power lost in the inefficient (but cheap) shunt regulator setup. |
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Post by badluna on May 10, 2017 12:42:22 GMT -5
So the one i linked is advertised a "full wave" rectifier. When i purchased a stator (My orignal one blew) it didnt have a ground wire. I dont know if that means that it was sold with this modification present or not. (I dont have a oscilloscope to test it). I purchased the "full wave rectifier" with the stator. 45W does seem like a lot and it might be a fabrication. But afther i disconnected the light and drove for a alittle it started charging the battery. So what ever wattage it is using is more than ,y scooter can afford to lose. So what is the bottle neck? Some people keep saying that the stator creates about 200W of power. Im somewhat doubtful that these rectifiers that are sold on ebay can handle that amout of power. Especiall when you consider that the cheapest on that can handle 150W is $60 www.amazon.com/Trail-Tech-7004-RR150-Regulator-Electrical/dp/B00JGRATRMThats why i was asking for specs. I just want to make sure. |
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Post by gsx600racer on May 10, 2017 16:43:45 GMT -5
Your stator is the problem. Most 50cc stators can only put out about 2 amps, some a tad more. You are consuming more power than your stator can supply and thats why you are having issues. Your stator is only capable of 1/2 wave power. Connecting what you might think is a full wave rectifier is just misleading on the sellers part. Reread my previous post in regards with the rectifier pin counts and the differences between 1/2 and full wave. As for the "200W", my guess this would be for larger scooters. Get yourself some electrical measuring tools and do some math and see what your setup is capable of doing. Then get different LED lights that are not as "taxing" to your current electrical system. As for the trail tech link, did you see this note ? "Trail Tech's Regulator/Rectifier will not work with most factory stators". You also have to buy their stator too. I don't think they make stuff for 50cc scooters. Use Ohm's Law for the math. |
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Post by FrankenMech on May 10, 2017 22:18:33 GMT -5
The stator can be wired several ways with regards to ground. -An internal ground tap -An external ground tap -Or both external and internal ground Gsx probably knows more about what stator variations are available for the 50cc engines than I do. I looked at the stator variations available for a 50cc but gave up due to hill climbing and CVT limitations with a 50cc 4-poke. I decided to concentrate on a 1 2550cc upgrade. I have noticed that some of the larger engines are available with 4-terminal regulator compatible stators. I am looking for an engine with a full wave setup, -one of those 6+ terminal regulators  |
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Post by ThaiGyro on May 11, 2017 4:02:10 GMT -5
First off... forget guess work here...for now. You must figure our what your OEM charging system is. Is it full or half wave? All answers related to your problem must be addressed by that equipment condition.
If you bought a full wave rectifier for a half wave charging system, you are one of the many that donates $$ to companies who don't care. They are NOT compatable.
If you are like me...you must first modify your charging system. Kind of simple, really...but you should understand what you are trying to do.
There is much advise, but it should be related to YOUR application. If you do not know what you have...find out.
IN general, most older...pre-fuel injection scooters had really bad/cheap/faltering electrical generation that were half wave. One full coil was "dedicated" to lighting. (Instead of charging). In a full wave system everything comes from the battery, so no power dips/raises. Note that FI and CDI require specific power supply levels.
If you eliminate the lighting coil and move that circuit to battery, you can get what you need, or better anyway. That mod requires a full wave rectifier/regulator. Simple, if you have the right one. Number of wires is a good clue. Like mentioned, mine has a 4 wire connector.
Not sure if it matters...but in general, a charging system makes its peak delivery around 4200 to 4800 rpm. If you look at vehicle specs, you may find that. My Honda "supposedly" delivers 86-90 watts at 4600 rpm- half wave. Enough to generate spark and basic ignition control until you turn the lights on for darkness. Really! I found the hard way. Shut down the headlight to remain running at night!
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Post by ThaiGyro on May 11, 2017 23:06:01 GMT -5
As Frankenmech stated, we used the instructions from the same blogspot article and performed our first conversion about 9 months ago, on a friends Honda Gyro. (He was adding HID lighting.) He also has an MSX125 4T, with full wave charging, so we used that one for our test...no issues. Cheap here too! I think he paid the equivalent of $15 for the new one after we tested. Our local shop is awesome! They will get any part we need...all Japan scooters are made here. Suzuki factory is a 10 minute drive!
We tried to find upgraded replacement AC full wave generators...nobody makes one. We have talked with a few firms here about manufacturing them. We won't get rich, but are going ahead with ones that will fit Gyro/Dio, etc. We are also sourcing the bridge rectifiers to build a kit, along with proper connectors to make everything plug and play...well nearly anyway.
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Post by benji on May 11, 2017 23:14:33 GMT -5
If you guys do a dio version you should do well. Lots of dio guys like upgrading there lights and stuff I've noticed.
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Post by ThaiGyro on May 12, 2017 2:57:18 GMT -5
Thanks Benji! It is a tougher task than I first thought, but I am sure we can fit many, many Honda's using one or two variations of AC generators. The demand here is strong too. We are looking into Yamaha's as our next adaptation...after we get rolling income...
We will attempt to provide low cost systems to the States as well. The raw material costs are quite good here, labor is cheaper, quality is fantastic. Should be able to capture some markets. Funny, the younger gens love the light thing...I want stability for my ultimate goal..FUEL INJECTION systems. As cheap or cheaper than carbs...I believe it is do-able.
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