cabrinha
Scoot Member
Posts: 28 
Location: Hellas
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Post by cabrinha on Aug 4, 2017 6:08:17 GMT -5
Hello everyone. I am a happy owner of a Yamaha Jog R (air cooled, my2002), stock (except an aftermarket cheap and leaky exhaust). I was pretty satisfied with its perfomance untill I rode an MBK Booster 100 (full stock). Now I am thinking about an upgrade. First option is a big bore kit. Second one an engine swap (from an neos/aerox/bws or an MBK equivalent. What do you advise me to do. My performance goal is that of the 100cc stock engine. If there is a bolt on big bore kit available, compatible with my scooters case and carb offering the performance gain I seek, I think this is the preferred option, value for money and diy friendly. I think my engine produces 2.6hp and Booster 100 about 7hp. How much horsepower does a 70cc or 90cc kit produces?   |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Aug 4, 2017 7:50:28 GMT -5
Greeting Cabrinha! Brazil? You ask a big question. Beautiful scooter!
There are so many things you can accomplish. First in my mind, you started with a goal. More ponies!
Here are my general thoughts about power:
A 50cc can go from 3 or 4 hp to 7 or 8 with reasonable time, a bit of skills and little cash. Even on a stocker.
Add a BBK and required pipe, carb and such, you should get 11 or 12...if everything done right.
Maybe others disagree, but I play with ignition timing/carb tuning on OEM rides all the time, with surprising gains.
My suggestion is start with the basics...cleaning, tuning fuel and ignition systems, tuning drive system...you will be amazed.
When no longer amazed, spend money. Tune and spend more money. That is my experience.
You asked the right question...in the right place.
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 4, 2017 8:13:46 GMT -5
 You can definitely match and top the performance of those stock 100s if they're making 7HP. A sport 70cc kit and pipe should do that. I like mild street/sport stuff a lot. They can be very reliable with greatly improved performance vs stock and aren't too tough or expensive to build or tune. As you go toward more race oriented kits, power picks up and so does cost, maintenance required, and difficulty of tuning.
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Post by spaz12 on Aug 4, 2017 14:13:28 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum!  |
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Post by geoffh on Aug 4, 2017 14:53:19 GMT -5
Welcome,sweet looking jog R it puts mine to shame,it,s the same but mines a 2004 with 10k miles on it,I mostly just ride to work on mine, I have started to upgrade a little,see my Yamaha Jog R commuter in the builds section.IF you can find a 100cc engine that may be the easiest upgrade,I,ve got one and can confirm it will just bolt right in there BUT the brakes are larger,some are disc brakes so you,ll need a complete engine/wheel brake assy,and the wiring is different(sortable).
geoff
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cabrinha
Scoot Member
Posts: 28
Location: Hellas
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Post by cabrinha on Aug 5, 2017 5:37:35 GMT -5
Thank you all for your responses. Greeting Cabrinha! Brazil? You ask a big question. Beautiful scooter! There are so many things you can accomplish. First in my mind, you started with a goal. More ponies! Here are my general thoughts about power: A 50cc can go from 3 or 4 hp to 7 or 8 with reasonable time, a bit of skills and little cash. Even on a stocker. Add a BBK and required pipe, carb and such, you should get 11 or 12...if everything done right. Maybe others disagree, but I play with ignition timing/carb tuning on OEM rides all the time, with surprising gains. My suggestion is start with the basics...cleaning, tuning fuel and ignition systems, tuning drive system...you will be amazed. When no longer amazed, spend money. Tune and spend more money. That is my experience. You asked the right question...in the right place. I come from Greece. I agree with your aproach to fine tune first my stock engine/cvt but this is an option not suitable for my case. And the reason is that I have not that much time to experiment. So I am looking for a tried and tested setup (if there is one), bolt on and value for money. You can definitely match and top the performance of those stock 100s if they're making 7HP. A sport 70cc kit and pipe should do that. I like mild street/sport stuff a lot. They can be very reliable with greatly improved performance vs stock and aren't too tough or expensive to build or tune. As you go toward more race oriented kits, power picks up and so does cost, maintenance required, and difficulty of tuning. Race oriented kits are out of question due to the fact that I use the scooter everyday for commuting. Do you believe that one of the kits below will do the job for me? www.pedparts.co.uk/product/1105/motoforce-sport-70cc-cylinder-jog-acwww.pedparts.co.uk/product/2820/70cc-cylinder-kit--minarelli-jog-50cc-acOf course the carb will be rejetted (do the kits give details about proper jet size), a new exhaust (simple, cheap and quiet) and a new reed valve will be installed. Welcome to the forum! Thank you! Welcome,sweet looking jog R it puts mine to shame,it,s the same but mines a 2004 with 10k miles on it,I mostly just ride to work on mine, I have started to upgrade a little,see my Yamaha Jog R commuter in the builds section.IF you can find a 100cc engine that may be the easiest upgrade,I,ve got one and can confirm it will just bolt right in there BUT the brakes are larger,some are disc brakes so you,ll need a complete engine/wheel brake assy,and the wiring is different(sortable). geoff My jog was abandonned for some years in a field with 30.000km on the clock (bought it with a non working speedometer, don't know real km). I found it symptomatically on facebook and I bought it for 50 euro (60$). Little by little and with a tiny budget I started restoring it (hardest part the cleaning, first cleaning took over 5 hours to get rid of the dirt/oils/millions of spiders). Everything then step by step was fixed (clocks and wheels were left untouched. The first due to cost, the second cause I did not have the courage to keep sanding). s1189.photobucket.com/user/cabrinhaGR/library/JogI saw your build. Aesthetically your scooter is better than mine. Just a quick polish for the painted parts and a gel for the unpainted is needed. Put this on schedule. |
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Post by moofus02 on Aug 5, 2017 6:39:42 GMT -5
I think either of those kits would be OK. Sport kit with a stock pipe makes a nice ride. A tuned pipe is even nicer but pushes the rpm up some and losses some on the bottom. If you have the 5bm cases they are factory trenched and work really well. For an every day driver stock carb or delorto phgb in 19mm with stock airbox and sleeper style street pipe would be good. With a tuned pipe. I would use a phbg in 19 or 21mm with stock airbox. Be really fun in that light bike
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Post by 90GTVert on Aug 5, 2017 6:45:13 GMT -5
I agree with your aproach to fine tune first my stock engine/cvt but this is an option not suitable for my case. And the reason is that I have not that much time to experiment. So I am looking for a tried and tested setup (if there is one), bolt on and value for money. There may be no suitable options for upgrading your existing engine if time/effort allowed is that limited, aside from taking it to a shop. A big bore kit is not truly a bolt-on, in the sense that you install it and you're done. The carburetor and CVT will need to be tuned. Add a tuned pipe and then the tuning requires even more effort. There is no 1 jet that works or 1 roller weight. You may get into a ballpark tune that way, but to do it right takes time. I know some shops have a jet size that they like and will install the same one each time, but I've always done trial and error tuning with a selection of jets and weights. I installed a BBK for a customer who rode with friends that had a big shop do their work. With just a Polini Sport BBK and a variator, he was quicker/faster than his friends and some of them had a sport BBK, variator, and exhaust, but they were all installed at a place that I believe just used whatever jet and roller weights they had on paper to work. That customer's scoot used different jetting and weights than a scoot that I owned with the same BBK and variator too, so it's more proof that one size doesn't fit all... at least not if you want it to work at it's greatest potential. Once you know how to swap a jet or weights, it's not really more difficult to tune... just takes a little more time/effort. Aside from that, BBKs may benefit from chamfering the exhaust port before assembly, checking ring end gaps, and checking/adjusting squish clearance for just a few basics. Many install them without doing that, but I feel that engine assembly should not be something that you're timing on a stopwatch or doing on a tight schedule. It should be done carefully with more concern for a good end result than making a deadline. Not trying to sound negative, but it will be real disappointing if a kit is bought and paid for and installed, and then you find out that it doesn't run right with some recommended settings and requires time that you aren't willing to invest. And yes, the kits you linked to are the kind of kits I was talking about. |
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cabrinha
Scoot Member
Posts: 28
Location: Hellas
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Post by cabrinha on Aug 5, 2017 6:49:54 GMT -5
How can I find which case my scooter has? The stock carb is a Dell'orto PHVA12ZS/1. I agree with your aproach to fine tune first my stock engine/cvt but this is an option not suitable for my case. And the reason is that I have not that much time to experiment. So I am looking for a tried and tested setup (if there is one), bolt on and value for money. There may be no suitable options for upgrading your existing engine if time/effort allowed is that limited, aside from taking it to a shop. A big bore kit is not truly a bolt-on, in the sense that you install it and you're done. The carburetor and CVT will need to be tuned. Add a tuned pipe and then the tuning requires even more effort. There is no 1 jet that works or 1 roller weight. You may get into a ballpark tune that way, but to do it right takes time. I know some shops have a jet size that they like and will install the same one each time, but I've always done trial and error tuning with a selection of jets and weights. I installed a BBK for a customer who rode with friends that had a big shop do their work. With just a Polini Sport BBK and a variator, he was quicker/faster than his friends and some of them had a sport BBK, variator, and exhaust, but they were all installed at a place that I believe just used whatever jet and roller weights they had on paper to work. That customer's scoot used different jetting and weights than a scoot that I owned with the same BBK and variator too, so it's more proof that one size doesn't fit all... at least not if you want it to work at it's greatest potential. Once you know how to swap a jet or weights, it's not really more difficult to tune... just takes a little more time/effort. Aside from that, BBKs may benefit from chamfering the exhaust port before assembly, checking ring end gaps, and checking/adjusting squish clearance for just a few basics. Many install them without doing that, but I feel that engine assembly should not be something that you're timing on a stopwatch or doing on a tight schedule. It should be done carefully with more concern for a good end result than making a deadline. Not trying to sound negative, but it will be real disappointing if a kit is bought and paid for and installed, and then you find out that it doesn't run right with some recommended settings and requires time that you aren't willing to invest. And yes, the kits you linked to are the kind of kits I was talking about. I totally agree with you and thank you for helping me. But I must point out that I am not seeking the ultimate numbers or the ultimate cvt/gear setup. I am aware that a transmission made for a 50cc engine that makes 2 hp cant work with an engine making twice or more the horsepower. The same with the carb. In conclusion what I seek is an upgrade that will make my scooter cruising in higher speed without sacrificing reliability. What I dont want is to enter a loop of everyday changing of rollers, springs, gears, jets etc untill I find the best combination. When I say bolt on I mean that I can fit the cylinder without machine work. And when I say a tried and tested setup I mean a general setup known to work. |
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Post by geoffh on Aug 5, 2017 9:31:11 GMT -5
cabrinha,your scoot is meant to be a reliable workaday everyday all weather easy to maintain etc,the first thing I,d do is change the exhaust it will make a huge difference to your ride,a stealth or street pipe can be used with a BBK so it,s an investment.What kind of speeds are you getting,what speed is cruising and for how long.Before we dig to deep is the scoot well maintained,CVT serviced,air box intact ect.Mines a little cracker but I have to keep on top of the service side of it.Your speedo drive may have jammed up,take it off and break the sealing film off remove the rotating part clean and regrease it replace,works for me.
geoff
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cabrinha
Scoot Member
Posts: 28
Location: Hellas
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Post by cabrinha on Aug 5, 2017 11:57:37 GMT -5
cabrinha,your scoot is meant to be a reliable workaday everyday all weather easy to maintain etc,the first thing I,d do is change the exhaust it will make a huge difference to your ride,a stealth or street pipe can be used with a BBK so it,s an investment.What kind of speeds are you getting,what speed is cruising and for how long.Before we dig to deep is the scoot well maintained,CVT serviced,air box intact ect.Mines a little cracker but I have to keep on top of the service side of it.Your speedo drive may have jammed up,take it off and break the sealing film off remove the rotating part clean and regrease it replace,works for me. geoff My Jog achieves a top speed of about 64km/h (gps) and I usually cruise at 35-40km/h. Apart from a leaking reed valve case and a broken exhaust (hole in the pipe) everything else is in excellent condition (carb, cvt, gears,air and fuel filters). As for the clocks the sensor needs replacement as well as the unit because the lcd screen shows wrong indications (time, fuel, mileage). |
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Post by spaz12 on Aug 5, 2017 15:50:33 GMT -5
Maybe the Top Performance Trophy Black would be the ideal cylinder for you, it's a tried and true cylinder with a very good reputation. You can keep the stock pipe and carb with maybe a main jet one or two larger than what's in it now. You could even keep the same roller weights, but would benefit with slightly heavier rollers. You would get big gains for hill climbing and slightly higher top speeds. Later you can add a pipe and bigger carb for even higher top speed.
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Post by geoffh on Aug 6, 2017 8:29:00 GMT -5
Ok so were not shooting for the moon,the reed valve and exhaust are really holding you back,if you post some pictures we might be able to suggest a "red neck repair"to help you out.
geoff
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cabrinha
Scoot Member
Posts: 28
Location: Hellas
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Post by cabrinha on Aug 8, 2017 16:11:52 GMT -5
I try to decide which route to follow. So I am not going to make any fixes yet.  |
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