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Post by wamgaming on Sept 19, 2017 16:45:53 GMT -5
I have been trying to diagnose a problem with my moped for a few months now and cant seem to figure it out.
The moped is a 49cc TaoTao 2016 with a big bore kit installed. It has a performance exhaust, cold air intake, and ERG delete. It also has a performance coil(orange), and cdi.
I am having a continual issue with starting in the mornings when its cold. It takes a ton of cranking with the electric start and throttle to get started. Once it is started it does not have the issue for the rest of the day, and typically do not have the issue at all if its hot in the mornings. When it starts initially the idle is very bad until about 30 seconds, and I can tell the choke is working because after this poor idle in starting the scooter slows in rpm and comes down to a smooth idle.
A couple things to note is that I smell heavily of gas on my back after riding it for no more then 5 mins, and the end of the exhaust pipe is sooty to the touch. It does not smoke at all but when its really cold and I have to use a lot of cranking and gas to get it started, it will smoke a little. This I assume is just the flooded gas being expelled? It also backfires very subtly when decelerating or going down hills.
What I have done:
Installed a new intake manifold and carburetor(with choke) and jetted it with a 35 pilot and 85 main. Tuned the carb( when warm)
Changed out the air filter with a new air filter of the same kind.
Installed a new spark plug (no change in starting)
Adjusted the valves to 0.004 on intake and exhaust(when cold)
Ensured the carb is getting gas, and the fuel pump is functioning.
I have no idea what could be causing this issue. I read on here that it could be a faulty cdi, and the performance cdi's can cause poor cold starting.
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Post by badluna on Sept 19, 2017 16:57:33 GMT -5
Throw away that performance CDI and install the stock. it does nothing for you. It was proven that it doesn't even tighten the timing. Also those performance ignitors are kinda crap too I've had two fail on me. I went back to the stock and it has outlasted both of them. As long as the spark is strong and blue it dosn't matter if it calls it self high performance. I don't know enough about these scooters to say whats wrong. I had a similar issue. Especially in the winter. I simply bought the biggest battery that fit and that fixed it if i remember. If you havent done so its a highly recommended modification. For a 2016 Taotao the biggest battery size that will fit is the YTX7A-BS Good luck Edit: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p63JXW29tVo90GTVert is the best |
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 19, 2017 21:19:21 GMT -5
Throw away that performance CDI and install the stock. it does nothing for you. It was proven that it doesn't even tighten the timing. Also those performance ignitors are kinda crap too I've had two fail on me. I went back to the stock and it has outlasted both of them. As long as the spark is strong and blue it dosn't matter if it calls it self high performance. I don't know enough about these scooters to say whats wrong. I had a similar issue. Especially in the winter. I simply bought the biggest battery that fit and that fixed it if i remember. If you havent done so its a highly recommended modification. For a 2016 Taotao the biggest battery size that will fit is the YTX7A-BS Good luck Edit: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p63JXW29tVo90GTVert is the best I just dont know what advanced timing would do to a moped. I know they say that it increases horsepower, but I never hear people really talk about their negatives like hard starting. I really dont even care about preformance at this point. I just want a reliable starting moped that does not take ages to get started. |
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Post by badluna on Sept 19, 2017 23:01:10 GMT -5
Also. Try doing a carb mixture adjustment.
On the left side of the carb there should be a screw. Turn it clockwise until its stop. Then turn it back 1 1/2 times
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 20, 2017 0:05:00 GMT -5
Also. Try doing a carb mixture adjustment. On the left side of the carb there should be a screw. Turn it clockwise until its stop. Then turn it back 1 1/2 times I have actually tried to adjust this and even stepped up a size on my pilot jet. It doesnt seem to make a difference when it comes to starting, and it continues to haunt my bike no matter the mixture. |
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Post by badluna on Sept 20, 2017 0:44:41 GMT -5
Also. Try doing a carb mixture adjustment. On the left side of the carb there should be a screw. Turn it clockwise until its stop. Then turn it back 1 1/2 times I have actually tried to adjust this and even stepped up a size on my pilot jet. It doesnt seem to make a difference when it comes to starting, and it continues to haunt my bike no matter the mixture. Did you trying putting it down? A very rich mixture can also bog a engine |
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Post by Cincikid on Sept 20, 2017 6:28:28 GMT -5
Sounds rich. What are your valve gaps set at? When was the last adj?
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 20, 2017 7:52:41 GMT -5
Sounds rich. What are your valve gaps set at? When was the last adj? I actually just adusted my valved last week they are set at 0.004 for both intake and exhaust. Why might the moped start better with the throttle held open or given gas. Seems to not even try to start with no gas, then all the suddent at once the motor wants to fire and then it will start first time. |
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 20, 2017 12:20:33 GMT -5
This morning I wanted to test how the moped would start with the kickstarter. Suprisingly it started on the third kick, and felt like it had tons of compression. It was not cold by any means outside, so I cant say for certain its a weak starting capabilities. I will update on how it starts when its a cold morning. It just does not make sense why it would start fine warm and have such trouble sitting for a while and cold.
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Post by 90GTVert on Sept 21, 2017 13:58:11 GMT -5
This morning I wanted to test how the moped would start with the kickstarter. Suprisingly it started on the third kick, and felt like it had tons of compression. It was not cold by any means outside, so I cant say for certain its a weak starting capabilities. I will update on how it starts when its a cold morning. It just does not make sense why it would start fine warm and have such trouble sitting for a while and cold. Maybe the battery is on the edge of it's abilities? Batts don't work as well when it's cold, plus the oil is thicker and a little harder to move. Couple that with a BBK and it could certainly have trouble. That wouldn't explain why it runs poorly when started though. |
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Post by AtariGuy on Sept 21, 2017 20:13:20 GMT -5
i'm putting dollars on the ignition sequence. having too much of an advance on your timing curve at idle can actually hinder the inertia of the crankshaft to get up and over tdc when it's already rollin slow. advanced timing is better suited when you've got the rpms up and running that horse of yours. just... try the stock cdi & ignition coil and let us know how it rolls
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 21, 2017 22:27:33 GMT -5
i'm putting dollars on the ignition sequence. having too much of an advance on your timing curve at idle can actually hinder the inertia of the crankshaft to get up and over tdc when it's already rollin slow. advanced timing is better suited when you've got the rpms up and running that horse of yours. just... try the stock cdi & ignition coil and let us know how it rolls That is exactly what I was thinking. I just ordered a CDI and it should be in tomorrow. I have a bad feeling that it could be that the big bore kit was initally put in with in with incorrect timing to begin with. I will try it out tomorrow and let you know what I find out. |
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 24, 2017 13:11:37 GMT -5
Update:
Still waiting on the CDI to get here however it was recently cold one morning and I noticed something worth mentioning. On the cold morning I went to try to kick start it and it sounded much different then when I use the electric start. It sounds like its trying to start and starts on the 3rd or 4th kick. Where as when I try the electric start (when its cold), it does not sound like its firing, but then all the suddent starts and runs fine. I don't know what might be causing this issue either. I was just curious why the kickstarted would sound so different in trying to start it compared to the electric start.
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Post by cagiva4ever on Sept 24, 2017 14:54:47 GMT -5
your problems are these following and Combos of these making starting even more worse
-bbk too much compression
-race cdi having too much of a ign advance from cranking-starting rpm's and after that into idle.
-cold weather
-stock weak starter motor. it has poor Wattage
-stock wiring loom harnes for Starter circuit. all earth etc starter motor Cable are substandard wire cage diam.
-stock chinese ht-coil cable, and Cap ?
if you cant ease the Compression , do following:
-swop back into stock cdi
-adjust re-jet carb to suit current weather
-use proper NGK or equivaliment ht-coil cable and ht-cap
-add extra proper better earth(-) cables to the wiring loom harness, to help the starter motor work better, no more voltage lost due poor wiring... also change into better cage diam positive(+) cable for starter motor.
-service the starter motor. carbon brushes to be checked re-new'd, and Commutator surface to be checked serviced.
-also try another Starter solenoid, their continuity performance Varies !!!
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Post by wamgaming on Sept 25, 2017 18:44:26 GMT -5
UPDATE: I replaced the CDI today and it seemed to fix the starting problem. There hasnt been a super cold day yet but the way it started first thing in the morning today, leads to believe that it was WAY too advanced timing for cold starting. I did notice now that I had to raise the idle, and will probably have to retune the carb, but it runs significantly better than it did.
The only other problem I am having is that when the moped is warming up on the choke, the revs seem to be a little unstable. It revs higher so I know its working, but there is a distinctive difference in the smoothness of the idle while on choke and off choke. However, the CDI definatly was the problem with starting, now its just minor adjustments to the carb to get it running perfectly.
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