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Post by mike007 on Oct 4, 2017 13:07:10 GMT -5
i picked up a 2014 tao tao an the guy said it would start then die. got it home an did some checking, took gas line off an gas runs out nice an steady so no problem there (also it does not have a vacume switch shut off, just straight from tank to carb). everything hooked up like it should be. it'll fire up an idle smooth an will rev up also, but after about a minute of running it boggs out an dies, try to restart an it takes a while then it will, then runs fine until about a minute then boggs out an dies. almost like it is running out of fuel (like the float bowl fills up then it runs out an dies, wait for it to refill then starts then runs out an dies). i removed carb, tipped it over an fuel runs out of overflow tube so i know hte float bowl is full. anything else i should check on this thing that would cause the problem?
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Post by tortoise2 on Oct 4, 2017 13:24:24 GMT -5
after about a minute of running it boggs out an dies, try to restart an it takes a while then it will, then runs fine until about a minute then boggs out an dies Pilot jet may be obstructed . . shutting off low-speed fuel flow when enricher (choke) needle extends. Place the pilot and main jets in a cup, cover with water, add a drop of dish soap, and microwave to boil for a few seconds. SOME pilot jets have internal "cross-hairs" similar to a rifle scope.
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Post by pinkscoot on Oct 4, 2017 13:31:56 GMT -5
First you should put a filter in that line to keep the little jet clogging stuff out of your carb. A shut off valve is also a good thing so that you can pull your carb without troubles.
Did you drain the tank and clean the carb when you got it? It could be that the float is sticking open. The carb could also need tuning and when the enricher turns off its running to rich or lean.
This will help with the tuning www.49ccscoot.com/faq/carbtune.html
That should get you started.
Edit: And what Tortoise said while I was typing.
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Post by mike007 on Oct 4, 2017 18:09:53 GMT -5
oh guess i forgot to say there is a filter an a manual inline shutoff valve. new to these electric choke carbs so yea i guess after about a minute that would shut off an if jets are plugged then it would die. but i did try running it with the electric choke unplugged an it did run a little longer before dieing but it still bogged out an died. i'll take carb apart tomorrow an give it good cleaning an see if that helps any.
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Post by eclark5483 on Oct 4, 2017 18:59:08 GMT -5
You can also boil your jets in oxyclean. Or leave them in a crock pot overnight with some oxyclean and carb cleaner.
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Post by mike007 on Oct 5, 2017 13:16:58 GMT -5
ok update, got carb cleaned spotless, jets an all passages clear. fresh gas in tank, new filter an lines. still doing the same thing as before, will start an run great for about a minute then dies. unplugged the electric enrichener an it bogs out at idle but will rev up an run good but still about a minute an it dies. just like it runs the fuel out of float bowl an no more goes in, but i know float bowl is full.
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Post by catchacuda on Oct 5, 2017 19:43:13 GMT -5
I'm only mentioning this because member lostforawhile is experiencing something perhaps similar. (I have with a two stroke as well) is the exhaust clogged? Easy test would be to loosen the headpipe enough to allow some exhaust gas to bypass the system. Does it still die like this? Of course, dont go cruising around like that, troubleshooting only
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Post by cagiva4ever on Oct 6, 2017 11:40:58 GMT -5
take of the Fuel Tank cap, in a case if it has a "AirLock issue" causing fuel to shut of after a short while.
AirLock circumstances can deliver a Float bowl volume of gasoline and then Cut of the fuel feed. and once waited for couple minutes, its all happening the same again, engine starts and run's exactly the same and the same time duration.
on a Netherlands Peugeot V-clic 139QMB dealer "news bulletin" , there is a digital cam photo about dismantled Tank cap, which has a notification to swop-change the O-ring in it.... Apparently some 139qmb Fuel cap's may suffer from poor Ventilation Replacement Air volume into the fuel tank feed.
you should also be certain verify that Carb's float bowl is Breathing, that it isnt either suffering from AirLock.
i prefer Pro ultrasonic cleaner for every carb wash... Often people do not get proper results with Carb cleaner spray or/and over night soaking in various solvents...
Does the engine's "bogs and dies" defenitely sound like fuel starvation ? very short self high rev'ing at the last couple seconds ? or a sounds like turning ignition Of/hitting killswitch ? some electrical ignition issues appear after a certain heat is build up, killing sparg. so be sure which is yours ^^ but normally this would take little longer time period (engine running) like 10~15mins+
today i noticed while handling some of my 139QMB PD18J carbs's, that some of them Varied for Idle Jet Structure. some idle jets have longer bore hole than others, which will have an effect into Static Fuel pressure effect: richer/leaner. 1 of them idle jets basically is like 2~3mm deeper in Float Bowl, as per counting from where the actual jet hole-bore starts from.
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Post by mike007 on Oct 6, 2017 15:48:51 GMT -5
took exhaust off an still same results. took gas cap off an still same results. also took fuel line off carb an ran it into a container an turned on manual shutoff valve an it flows gas nice an smooth with cap on or off so 100% sure cap is venting an no vacum lock. motor bogs out an slowly dies either at idle or reved up, does not rev up high then die an does not just instantly shut off like turning off ignition switch. seems like once the enrichener turns off (or like it does is extend the needle into the hole to shut off excess fuel), then the motor dies. i know the jets are spotless an so are the passageways. not sure how to test if float bowl is venting so maybe thats causing the problem an once the fuel runs out or low the float dont open to let more in. i know the float an needle are not hanging up cause i checked those when i had bowl off an float an needle move freely no matter what angle i hold the carb.
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Post by tortoise2 on Oct 6, 2017 16:08:41 GMT -5
not sure how to test if float bowl is venting Verify float bowl vent port/tube is open to atmosphere?
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Post by mike007 on Oct 6, 2017 16:19:24 GMT -5
yep, vent tube clear an pointed downward. there is a tube that connects to bottom of float bowl an has spring wire wrapped around it, it goes down to some metal cap thing that is attached to tranny case. i know thats the float bowl drain line but there is no screw to open to drain it on the bowl like all other carbs i have seen.
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Post by tortoise2 on Oct 6, 2017 16:39:41 GMT -5
there is a tube that connects to bottom of float bowl an has spring wire wrapped around it, it goes down to some metal cap thing that is attached to tranny case. i know thats the float bowl drain line but there is no screw to open to drain it on the bowl like all other carbs i have seen. For clarification . . is there a screw in the "metal cap thing" . . has gas been dripping from this metal fitting?
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Post by mike007 on Oct 6, 2017 16:49:20 GMT -5
well crap i never noticed the screw on the bottom, an no gas has not been dripping from there or anywhere
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Post by cagiva4ever on Oct 7, 2017 3:57:54 GMT -5
sounds like next step is to try finding possible Airleak, that is "after choke de-active" so big that it overrides Idle Circuit function. "path of least resistance effect".
-"unplugged the electric enrichener an it bogs out at idle but will rev up an run good but still about a minute an it dies. just like it runs the fuel out of float bowl an no more goes in, but i know float bowl is full."
i take it that you have Started the scooter in short time so many times, that it has gotten engine temp up little bit that it aint Cold, from all them short 1-minute running periods.
if you unplug the E-choke, when engine it warm, will it absolutely always start on idle circuit ? if it wont start with idle circuit, does it immediatelly start with E-choke active placed on ? that would point into basically an Airleak overriding idle circuit.... when placing back on the E-choke just be sure that it has cooled down.
as an elimination prosess, just in case have a look at the Intake manifolds "bakelite" seal and it s O-ring health:
The bakelite is famous known to Crack easyly due overtightening Manifold in place, or just from Vibrations etc issues. it would cause mahoosive intake side Airleak, make Vacuum poor...
like so: i10.aijaa.com/b/00616/12066121.jpg
it would not only cause irregular idle etc, but as said Weaken Vacuum alot...
This "bakelite and o-ring" is can be source for various issues.....
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Post by mike007 on Oct 7, 2017 6:25:56 GMT -5
ok i'll take intake manifold off an check the o-ring an surface. an yea the motor has gotten warmed up a little from all the short running it has done. but in between the running i have let the electric enrichener move back to "on" position an it'll still run the same, starts then idles an rev fine for about a minute then slowly revs down till it dies, just like the enrichener shuts off the extra fuel. also through all this the stock air box an filter have been on an hooked up just like normal, have read these are very sensitive to that. gonna try starting it again an when it starts dieing i'm gonna try covering the inlet for air box to choke off the air an see what happens, guessing it will be the same as the enrichener being "on".
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