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Post by honda4life on Oct 12, 2017 10:17:56 GMT -5
"generally" speaking-how much cooler does an aluminum vs. iron kit run?
I know people say the iron kit is more foregiving but aren't the aluminum ones treated with nikasil lining which would make them about as hard as iron?
I'm looking at the Polini Corsa and also the Athena. It's a daily driver and I am going for more "streetable" torque and a bit higher top speed-maybe 50mph?
Wouldn't the bbk be "easier" on the motor since I won't be running balls out to get to 42mph? My thinking is it will be "easier" with the bbk which will have less strain (and maybe temps) on the motor.
Thoughts??
(2008 Yammy Zuma 2T)
S6 carb (phbg)
stock exhaust
running about 42mph now.
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Post by benji on Oct 12, 2017 10:29:15 GMT -5
Personally, I think it's more about RPM then it is aluminum or cast. The Factory cast iron boars, at least on Yamaha Motors, seem to run for tens of thousands of miles without problems. But they mostly Redline at 6000 to 8000 RPM. When you go with an aftermarket exhaust, the motor starts to live at a much higher RPM all the time, and I imagine that creates a lot more wear and tear on the motor and internals. I'm guessing most people who buy aluminum bores also by expansion Chambers and big carbs and then have to do their own tuning, opening up more of a possibility of a failed cylinder to happen. You also have to think about engineering budgets. Yamaha is going to have much more experience building motors than Athena or polini because they build and sell more and have to warrantee them for a certain amount of time.
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Post by ryan_ott on Oct 12, 2017 11:33:48 GMT -5
The cast bore will wear better and gives longer service life and yes it’s more forgiving of improper tuning. With aluminum you need your jetting pretty close the first time out. It doesn’t take much to break through the nicasil coating. Then it’s time for a new cylinder. My cast cylinder runs under 300 wide open for miles. Proper setup will determine which cylinder will run cooler and last longest.
With any new motor give it some time to wear in because of tight piston to cylinder tolerance, especially the Corsa, your CHT won’t pick up on that quick enough to save you.
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Post by geoffh on Oct 12, 2017 15:46:46 GMT -5
Honda,I,d try a stealth exhaust over that stock one your running,rather than jump in and get a bbk I use a naraku traffic and stock engine with cvt tweak it will see 45mph,50mph might need some gearbox work.
geoff
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Post by pinkscoot on Oct 12, 2017 17:33:58 GMT -5
What Ryan said and when you soft seize an iron cylinder you can hone it back to life. The Aluminum you just replace.
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Post by honda4life on Oct 12, 2017 20:26:32 GMT -5
So, looking at exhausts, can I just buy it if it says 50cc minarelli?
There is one for Kymco minarelli but it doesn't specify Zuma......they both have the same motor right?
What are quiet yet still flow ok exhausts?
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Post by repherence2 on Oct 13, 2017 0:46:42 GMT -5
it all boils down to Jets and carb tuning...and cooling fan: jog50 fan vs jog90 fan.
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Post by honda4life on Oct 13, 2017 8:09:40 GMT -5
Really that's all?? Haha
I have read about the jog 90 fan. I think I need to get the larger shroud so it will fit? Will have to look into it some more.
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Post by pinkscoot on Oct 13, 2017 9:20:03 GMT -5
I have one of these sitting around my garage. I had it on the Pinkscoot and I saw a difference in performance, unfortunately it rubbed on the body so i had to take it off. I doubt I'll ever use it. PM me an offer. |
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Post by ThaiGyro on Oct 13, 2017 10:20:43 GMT -5
I have no scooter cylinder data whatsoever regarding Nikasil versus cast iron. What I do know is, like anything else...there is no one answer.
First, Nikasil was patented by Mahle (Germany) in the 60's. Until the past 10 or so years, was used for repairs on super expensive stainless steel parts to create some minute dimension on borderline machined surfaces, where other techniques would cause damage. (Used extensively in multi-stage compressor repairs...you can coat and micro-machine to perfection)
Therefore, I would not jump at which one is better, Nikasil/aluminum or cast iron. I would bank on the quality of the nikasil application/aluminum casting quality...versus quality of the cast iron/steel sleeve...which, BTW, can be super treated also.
Read up on porcelain coatings. Honda is a master of not telling what their race engines have. F1 also! Keep an old engine, but coat
That said, your questions would be related to accessibility. Not sure exactly, but we use shops here that support the oil & gas industry...motorcycles and cars...high tech parts manufacturing. The USA must still have shops.
We have porcelain coatings done here on request and a variety of other treatments. Carbon coatings, glass bead, powder coatings.
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Post by geoffh on Oct 13, 2017 15:12:59 GMT -5
So, looking at exhausts, can I just buy it if it says 50cc minarelli? There is one for Kymco minarelli but it doesn't specify Zuma......they both have the same motor right? What are quiet yet still flow ok exhausts? Scooter tuning(link on the forum) list technigas silent pro,polini speed and a malossi wild lion,all for the Zuma,all are street/stealth exhausts ,quietish but better than a stock exhausts.I read that the wild lion is good but do some research and let us know what happens. geoff |
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Post by repherence2 on Nov 20, 2017 23:20:53 GMT -5
Really that's all?? Haha I have read about the jog 90 fan. I think I need to get the larger shroud so it will fit? Will have to look into it some more. when I added the jog 90 fan to the 50cc engine, I had to modify the shroud/fan cover because that fan in significantly taller and larger. I went the hardware store, and bought a metal mesh cylinder "basket" in the home products section. I cut the basket 3/4" from the bottom. for the 50cc fan shroud, you end up cutting away the louver fins, pretty much 1/4" beyond the ring that holds the louver fins. I took the bottom section of the cylinder metal mesh basket and attached it to the shroud with shoe goo. it pretty much functioned as a fan guard because the jog 90 fan extends out about 1/4" past the 50cc fan shroud. on the round face "bottom" of the that mesh basket I attached that generic fan scoop with shoe goo. got all fancy with it because it was a "carbon fiber" scoop, but not as flashy as the chrome scoop lol.
in regards to tuning, I soft seized my first 70cc bore many times because I knew nothing about tuning. then one mechanic told me to keep bores below 350 degrees. so I bought a cylinder head temp sensor and that's how I tune for WOT. never soft seized after that. NCY iron bore, Malossi iron bore, Motoforce mid race nicasil, 54mm Hoca cast, 54mm Taida nicasil. 350 and below, you never have to worry about soft seizing. find a main jet that keeps you below 350 at wide open throttle all day and you're good.
my friend has a Polini Contessa with a YMS V8 black pipe. I have run the Malossi sport with the YMS V8 black pipe. both set ups are torquey and quite a good set up for the city. but if you looking for speed, I'm sure the Corsa will be quite awesome. lots of Hondas with Corsas here on Oahu, they're pretty fast. but the Honda Corsa guys run PG long pipes, Arrows, Scorpions, and some YMS V8 sectional pipes.
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Post by benji on Nov 21, 2017 11:26:01 GMT -5
I think the vino shrouds fit the 90cc fan. Do you really need a bigger fan tho? I've heard it's really not needed, if tuned properly the fuel should cool it down.
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Post by repherence2 on Nov 21, 2017 20:49:32 GMT -5
I think the vino shrouds fit the 90cc fan. Do you really need a bigger fan tho? I've heard it's really not needed, if tuned properly the fuel should cool it down. That is true. However, some Chinese cast iron big bores don't have that much cooling fins. My first big bore had less cooling fins on the jug than the stock bore. No matter how much I jetted it, it would still run hot and soft seize on long rides. I just could not get the bore cooler with more fuel, I got to the point where the jet that ran cooler would make the engine sputter at wide open throttle. So the mechanic that told me to keep it under 350 degrees recommended that I run the jog 90 fan for added cooling. I picked up 3 used fans for $10 each at a local moped shop. I just always run the larger cooling fan for more peace of mind. Yes, like you mentioned, you can cool the bore with more fuel. But when the China bore comes with less fins, heat transfer capability is very limited and the stock fan could not keep it cool. |
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