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Post by paydem on Nov 13, 2017 8:20:26 GMT -5
Hey. I always thought that Minarelli Horizontal/Vertical AC engines have been short case (R12 wheel) and Minarelli Horizontal LC engines have been long case (R13 wheel) until today I found out that short case engines came with R10 wheels.
I know I'm dumb, but I searched the internet and haven't found any info. Any help?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 13, 2017 9:01:44 GMT -5
There are pics and a little info about the Chinese Minarelli short and long engines here : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/999/90cc-minarelli-engine-swap-infoI don't know a lot about the genuine Yamaha stuff. The old Jogs should have a short case much like the Chinese variations above. Not sure if they ever did a long case like the Chinese stuff's altered gearbox as most I've seen are obviously different with a thin cover and thick area on the case for Yamahas vs hardly any lip on the case for the CVT and a thick cover (like old Jogs) for Chinese stuff. For Chinese engines, wheel size varies. Most short cases use 10" wheels, but some used narrow 12" wheels with low profile tires. Long cases sometimes use 10" wheels with big tires and sometimes used 12" wheels with 130/70-12 tires being common, and I think some may have came with 13". There are also some engines out there like the Adly style that stretch out the short case to make a long case, by adding length between the front and rear pulleys of the CVT. Belts are harder to get and cost more for those. Disc brakes are uncommon in the Chinese engines, but I know at least some are out there on long cases. Many Yamahas with drums will use different brake sizes than the Chinese engines, though I think the old Jogs may be the same as most Chinese knockoffs. |
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Post by paydem on Nov 13, 2017 10:04:59 GMT -5
There are pics and a little info about the Chinese Minarelli short and long engines here : 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/999/90cc-minarelli-engine-swap-infoI don't know a lot about the genuine Yamaha stuff. The old Jogs should have a short case much like the Chinese variations above. Not sure if they ever did a long case like the Chinese stuff's altered gearbox as most I've seen are obviously different with a thin cover and thick area on the case for Yamahas vs hardly any lip on the case for the CVT and a thick cover (like old Jogs) for Chinese stuff. For Chinese engines, wheel size varies. Most short cases use 10" wheels, but some used narrow 12" wheels with low profile tires. Long cases sometimes use 10" wheels with big tires and sometimes used 12" wheels with 130/70-12 tires being common, and I think some may have came with 13". There are also some engines out there like the Adly style that stretch out the short case to make a long case, by adding length between the front and rear pulleys of the CVT. Belts are harder to get and cost more for those. Disc brakes are uncommon in the Chinese engines, but I know at least some are out there on long cases. Many Yamahas with drums will use different brake sizes than the Chinese engines, though I think the old Jogs may be the same as most Chinese knockoffs. Here in Europe we never saw Chinese Minarelli engines, only the real ones. I thought Aerox had long case because it had 13" wheels, and, as I figured out, both Jog R and Aerox has long case engines. |
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Post by paydem on Nov 17, 2017 6:24:28 GMT -5
On the front page I found this text.
"Yamaha / Minarelli / Jog motors (1E40QMB, 1E50QMF, 1E52QMG)"
I've always seen that Jog engine is separated from others, the new Jogs such as R and RR are no different, but how is the old one, apart from being short case? Does the Jog stand for short-cased engine in this situation?
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Post by 90GTVert on Nov 17, 2017 7:12:51 GMT -5
That's just what they get called a lot. Many of the engines will be a little different, but may share similar parts. The early Jogs seem to be what the short case Chinese engines were modeled after. I really don't know anything about the new Jogs.
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Post by ThomasTPFL on Nov 17, 2017 9:55:31 GMT -5
In my own collection I have a Zuma longcase, a CPI long case, a Jog short case, a Vento short case, and an Eton long case. They all have differences but the top ends all interchange.
The Zuma is the oddest. It has a different transmission side layout. The others all have the same general dimensions, long and short, covers interchange.
I can't tell you which is which now but I have a total of three different rear axle spline patterns.
I have both large and small cranks, everything is 50cc, the Zuma is a small snout.
The Eton has a DC CDI and a different style stator and flywheel.
I want to say clutch end stuff sort of interchanges between them all but the input shaft length varies. All but the Zuma have a bearing in the cover. I had to play some games to fit the larger clutch into the CPI case.
The only one I'm running right now is the CPI case, so it's the one I'm most familiar with.
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Post by benji on Nov 17, 2017 10:18:35 GMT -5
The older jog motors are alot like the Chinese shortcase except the wheel spline count is different (15 vs. 18). Should still have a 110mm drum brake. The Yamaha Zuma long case horizontal uses a 130mm drum brake and shares the spline count(18) with Chinese clone blocks, but the zuma long case vertical motor uses a 110mm rear brake and Yamaha jog style axle/spline count (15). From what I've heard, the aerox/jog rr motor uses rear discs and a third style of axle that is slightly smaller with a different spline count I think. There are a couple different Chinese long case rear disc blocks out there but they use early jog/Chinese CVT stuff usually, including shortcase cover and trans gears.
There were also bigger versions of these motors. There are short case and long case "jog" (clone) motors available as well as a couple real Yamaha 90cc motors available in some 90-110cc scooters and some small ATVs. There is an Eton version that has a different belt than any other block and has limited aftermarket support belt wise. These 90cc motors looked very similar outside to the 49cc motors. The head stud spacing can be different on some and most of the 49cc blocks need to be cut/machined to accept larger 90cc parts.
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Post by islandscrub on Nov 17, 2017 13:55:35 GMT -5
TIL, long and short cvt covers generally fit each other, should make it easier for me to find one I like! Is R13 the biggest rim you can fit on a long case (QJ1E40QMB) ? I am building one from salvage, still need to find a nice frame for it.
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Post by geoffh on Nov 17, 2017 16:38:12 GMT -5
emmrrk,it,s best to separate the European Yamaha jog by model and rough age as follows
Jog CG50 old 1988 single seat vertical engine (no storage ) short case vertical
Jog CY50 oldish single seat vertical engine (luxury front storage) short case vertical
Jog CS50r 2002 2004/5 pillion seat air cooled engine long case horizontal
Jog CS50rr 2004/5 on pillion seat water cooled engine long case horizontal
Aerox long case
Our mates in the USA got the cg50 and the cy50 then the jog was replaced by the Zuma,and lots of Chinese copies of the short case not really seen in Europe Cheers geoff
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